內功 neigong (pronounced nay-gung): the science of observing, strengthening and directing bio-energy, or chi.
A repository of extraordinary skills such as telekinesis, pyrogenesis, telepathy, remote viewing and levitation, the esoteric Eastern school known as Mo-Pai has been described as a real-life order of Jedi Knights. Some have even speculated that its history inspired George Lucas’ script for Attack of the Clones.
Among the ancient neigong lineages still in existence today, the Mo-Pai is characterized by an unusual openness. The school and its headmaster, known by the alias “John Chang”, has been the subject of two recent books and a video documentary.
Jim McMillan, who identifies himself as a longtime disciple of John Chang, has graciously agreed to share a few of his experiences with Martial Development readers:
How did you first become acquainted with the esoteric practice of neigong?
My long-standing relationship with martial arts had become a dead-end journey. I recognized that the mentality of most practitioners, systems and schools is very self-centered: practitioners believe only “their” style is completely capable, and that any student can reach the level of past masters.
That is why I took my training in another direction around 1988, give or take a year. After taking a seminar from a Brazilian Jujitsu guy (can’t remember his name), I realized that I had wasted years of my time training in Taekwondo and Hapkido. I was easily defeated. It was a wake up call.
After taking some more classes, I tried combining BJJ with my previous styles, but this didn’t make me feel any better. I was getting too old, bored of the practice and physically tired. I realized it was also time to move over, for younger men to take over my martial arts school.
One evening, I was watching TV and saw a documentary called “Ring of Fire“. I heard a call deep within my soul. It was an inner compulsion that I had never felt before. I knew instantaneously that I had to find this man, who could perform these strange things.
After two years of researching, I finally decided to just go. A week and a half later, I found my teacher in a city of three million on the other side of the world.
It is often said that a traditional master will test an aspirant’s character and resolve, before deciding whether to accept them as a disciple. Did you face any such trials, or were you accepted immediately?
I wish the custom you speak of were true. However, thrill of being accepted by Pak (master) John Chang made up for any apparent absence of traditional testing.
Upon my arrival, it took me all of two weeks to locate John. I could only meet with him for a few minutes before I had to return to the airport, and catch my return flight home! Due to the rush, we had little time for formalities. I found that Pak John was modern in many respects, and very traditional in few others.
I didn’t know what to expect from a culture I was totally unaccustomed with. At our first meeting, Pak John was grabbed my arm unexpectedly and told me to flex it, to see if I had enough strength for the training. After that he said, “I’ll accept you.” And that was that.
In the beginning and according to Asian custom, I was prepared to sit in front of the master’s house, and patiently for him to answer my questions. But I didn’t have to, thank God!
What preconceived notions about qigong/neigong masters or methods, if any, has your personal experience since proven incorrect?
My neigong training has brought fulfillment in ways I never anticipated, and I now see life in a totally different way.
In the Mo Pai, there is a vital link between the present and the past. I refer to my teacher’s current relationship with his own (long dead) master, who visits at Pak John’s request during the Chinese New Year.
They speak on matters that I am not privy to, as I am not conversant in Indonesian, nor am I at the level where I can hear the spirit directly. However, the master’s spirit demonstrates visually that he does exist and is present at these meetings.
To be honest I was willing to do whatever it took (except for one thing) to become a student, and attain certain abilities that I had personally seen. While on my journey, I have found a new sense of profound awareness about my relationship with my creator, God. I did not expect such a thing would happen.
What sacrifices–time, effort, money, et cetera–are required of a student in the Mo Pai? How do these demands compare to your previous experience in various martial arts schools?
Actually, the sacrifices come naturally, as they would in pursuit of any other sincere interest we have. But yes, there are sacrifices, and I have made some that were life changing.
I am frequently asked about the sex issue (”conserving jing”). While my normal male hunger remains fully charged, my deep desire has become less focused on sex, and on future goals. I was glad to discover I could actually exert control over my natural instincts! I found that I didn’t have to be a slave to my instincts, which really made me feel better about myself.
Initially, I tried to stay single, and did so for over ten years. However, this took a toll on me, in the form of loneliness and depression. Later, I married.
Building up the dantian isn’t what most people think. You are not guaranteed great health.
My wife and son have tolerated the time spent on trips and in training. I try to practice when they are in bed, in the early morning or late evening; this way I have avoided too much trouble.
Money wasn’t a big issue for me initially, since I remained single for so long. Now that I am married, money is more of an issue. Prior to marriage I usually spent a little over three thousand dollars yearly to visit my teacher. However, the cost has sharply risen since I last visited.
How has this training affected your physical and emotional health? Has it made your life easier, or harder?
My health actually improved since I started in neigong. The deep breathing in our first level of training is actually very beneficial, as many of you already know. However, being that we all are very different, the effects/results will show differently in each of us.
I actually overcame a very severe back problem, and became so healthy that I went many years without missing a single day of work.
I also attribute my improved heath to maturity. You come to recognize a larger picture in life than what you had before. During the earlier period of my martial arts training, I always seemed to have some kind of ailment I had to heal or deal with, but I found in the later years that my meditation helped not only my physical condition, but my sparring as well. Still, this wasn’t enough to convince me to continue with martial arts.
My neigong training has brought fulfillment in ways I never anticipated, and I now see life in a totally different way. It caused me to understand my relationship with my Lord God as never before. It was like I was somehow infused with knowing him—without intentionally seeking this knowledge. This had a great impact upon my emotional state, and helped me through my prior depressive condition I had been struggling with.
Meditation is a very healthy thing to do, both physically and mentally. Your eyes are opened to aspects you wouldn’t ordinarily see.
Building up the dantian isn’t what most people think. You are not guaranteed great health. In fact, a few Western students became ill from training incorrectly. Although I don’t have concrete evidence, my observations suggest that if one has greed, power or any other negative desire in his heart, they will have health problems.
Many readers are interested in learning more about neikung, but don’t know where to start. Do you have any advice to offer?
Concerning admittance into the Mo Pai, I must always discuss every proposal with my teacher. Not everyone can be admitted. Nevertheless, anyone can contact me, and I will try to reply to everyone.
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80 responses so far ↓
1 Dojo Rat // Sep 17, 2008
What I find interesting and compelling is that he found the God- within himself.
No Church, religous dogma etc.
Thanks for this interesting post–
2 chris // Sep 17, 2008
Hi Im realy interested in neigong how do i contact
jim mcmillan thank you
please reply
3 Chris // Sep 17, 2008
Unless or until Jim leaves public contact information here, you may post your questions below. (He has left his email address on other posts, but I will let him decide when and where to repost it.) Jim is not the only Mo-Pai member listening, by the way.
4 Spartan // Sep 18, 2008
HI, Jim is it possible to for you to email me at .spartanarbitor@yahoo.com
5 Jeremy // Sep 18, 2008
Dear Jim,
I remember seeing the demonstrations by Pak John Chang as a young child and having the image stick with me to this day. I also remember the feeling when I heard that he was not longer teaching or accepting students - not good! Reading this has given me a feeling that I might too be as fortunate as you one day. If you get the time to pass on your contact details, I would really appreciate it!
Thanks,
Jeremy
6 Mindlezz1 // Sep 18, 2008
Hi Jim, it’s a pleasure ‘meeting’ you and thank you for sharing your incredible experiences. I’m not really sure what to say or even how to ask but I am very interested in contacting you. If you have the time would you be so kind as to shoot me an email?
dpumpernickels@yahoo.com
7 chris // Sep 19, 2008
Hi Jim its Chris here any chance of a email
id appreciate it thank you
8 Uzo // Sep 19, 2008
Hi Chris,
I would appreciate it greatly if you could forward my interest on to Jim in regards to learning Neigong. My email address is:
dukeswharf (at) gmail (dot) com
Peace & Blessings
Uzo
9 Mindlezz1 // Sep 19, 2008
Jim is a very busy but kind hearted man. He will reply soon enough
10 Daniel // Sep 22, 2008
Hi Jim my name is Daniel and I dont if you read these emails or not but I was hoping and wondering if you could share some more of your wisdom and expiernces of neigong. Please feel free to email me at d.rome@tmail.com or dnl_rome@yahoo.com thanks it would be GREATLEY apperciated and valued
11 Ikigai // Sep 22, 2008
Quite interesting! I hadn’t heard of this gentleman before now.
12 Sydney Familiar // Sep 23, 2008
Thank you for posting this! Will there be a part II to this brief interview? I would also like to contact Jim when possible.
13 Chris // Sep 23, 2008
Sydney, none of the other professed Mo-Pai members I conversed with have been as forthcoming as Jim McMillan. Mo-Pai is not the only living neigong school, however, so maybe I will eventually write more on this subject. Though, actually, I have mixed feelings about doing so.
14 Tony // Sep 24, 2008
Aloha Jim McMillan,
I live in Honolulu, Hawaii. I am a long time student of life and continue to be. All the material I have seen on Sifu JC or the Mo-pai continue to not only intrigue, but strike a chord inside of me. As a Thai-Chinese, I would like to embrace that Taoist part of my heritage, but have yet to encounter a chance. If you have time, would you email me at:
t o n y @ f r e s h m a n g 0. n e t
Thank you,
Tony
15 Tony // Sep 24, 2008
Sorry, I was trying to avoid the web crawlers and made a mistake in my email:
it should be (w/o the spaces):
t o n y @ f r e s h m a n g o . n e t
Thank you again.
Tony
16 Martin C. // Sep 25, 2008
Great post! THANK YOU for taking the time to share it with us.
-Martin C.
http://www.inspiringcinema.com
17 Mark // Sep 29, 2008
Hi Jim,
Thank you for sharing. The depth of your life experience can be felt through your words. I would like to hear more on your opinion on what type of person suceeds in the training as well as the obsticles you encountered along the path. This would greatly benefit all of us on our journey.
I would love to speak with you more when you find the time since in the not too distant future I plan on seeking out Pak John Chang as well, hopefully with a little Grace.
Thanks for your time in advance.
Mark
markbartosh@gmail.com
NYC
18 William // Oct 6, 2008
Chris,
you have written a number of articles on Mo Pai and John Chang. Why do you now dangle the carrot in front of people but have hesitations to give more details, when you write:”Mo-Pai is not the only living neigong school, however, so maybe I will eventually write more on this subject.”
In the end any practice requires dedication over many years and the guidance of an experienced master. So giving some general information for those searching honestly should be of any harm, don’t you think.
19 Mindless1 // Oct 6, 2008
William, if you are meant to find a teacher you will, if not dont dwell. You can do many a great things via a good book. Healing promise of Qi for example can help anybody with basic cultivation and circulation. You may never find someone like John Chang but you can figure things out on your own. As far as the ‘dangers’ go, it’s a myth. In extreme and very rare cases do you ever , EVER get into danger while training.
20 Chris // Oct 6, 2008
I have thus far written nearly three hundred pages on qigong and martial arts, at considerable personal effort and for trivial compensation. And now you are complaining that I haven’t done enough? Seriously?
Mo-Pai is mentioned on maybe four of these pages. I haven’t mentioned it more often, despite obvious reader interest, because it is simply not my particular area of expertise. That would be reason enough not to go into greater detail.
This website is full of general information! Jim and I gave you a free piece of cake here, and you demand a scoop of ice cream to go with it. Maybe this is how Western students earn a reputation for ingratitude…
Anyway, do you have any specific questions?
21 William // Oct 6, 2008
Chris,
please don’t misunderstand me.
Your site is great and people are certainly thankful for the information you provide.
But you know that many people are very interested in this topic as you can see from the number of comments.
And also so far it seems that there are not really any other schools similar to Mopai. But then you say “By the way, I know of one other school. Hmm, shall I let you in on this. I might. But perhaps better not.” If you don’t want to share this information, and not even hints, why mention it? That’s what I meant.
So my specific question is: Which other school is there?
22 Chris // Oct 7, 2008
There are plenty of reasons for sharing this much, and there are plenty of reasons for not sharing more. To address them briefly here would not do them justice, I think.
Long story short, I recommend you start by reading Qigong Fever.
23 William // Oct 8, 2008
I’ve come across that book before. Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll buy it.
Have you had a look at the master piece on China by Joseph Needham? It seems that in some volume (I think 5) there is good information on internal arts. I haven’t looked at it yet myself.
24 Mindless 1 // Oct 8, 2008
I’m not the most intelligent guy but I fair pretty well when it comes to common sense and I’ve pretty much grasped some of the training methods out of the magus book I think. In the end all the masters end up on a pillow, lotus position, doing sitting meditation. I say screw qigong, not to be rude, but from my understanding qigong circulates and you want to accumulate and do inner alchemy work.
25 Chris // Oct 8, 2008
William, I have not read any of Joesph Needham’s books.
Mindless1, please, no more “common sense” advice on this subject.
26 Mindless 1 // Oct 9, 2008
Hey look, I understand that everybody loves to keep up the tradition of myths but that’s exactly what they are MYTHS. Qigong, yoga, they are both great for certain things but not my certain things. Common sense, if you actually have it, can keep you out of trouble. Matter of fact one of the greatest myths to keep that student teacher relationship so tight is that the practices can be dangerous. The odds of any practice being a danger to anybody is the odds of me going to the moon.
27 KHN // Oct 11, 2008
Hi Jim,
I was wondering if there is any possible way I could create a line of communication with you or Master “John Chang.” I have so much questions I would like to ask and so many things I want to learn.
I was also curious if I could possibly one day meet you or “John Chang” in person?
I’m willing to make the trip to meet you in the summer to learn more about meditation, self-preservation, ideologies, and if possible neigong itself. And I willing to make the trip to meet “John Chang,” and maybe ask to be his apprentice, if denied, even a little advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated.
p.s. If Jim is not available, can you provide me the information to contact him Chris? Or possibly anyone else.
28 Eclipz // Oct 18, 2008
Jim McMillan I am interested in learning from you, and your lineage. Please send me an email, it will be greatly appreciated.
I just purchased both of the books about John Chang and I am very intent on learning this knowledge. So if you could assist me in any way it would be great.
Thanks again.
29 Eclipz // Oct 18, 2008
my email address is eclipz2g@yahoo.com
30 yogip // Oct 20, 2008
Hi Jim,
I really counldn’t care less about these mystical and metaphyiscal powers. I would however like to delve into this meditation and ask god or the divine/higher self some serious questions regarding my personal journey…..
So honestly I have to ask this question I have to ask, can you help me to find god and establish a communion with him, which is quite similar to what you have done and achieved
Regards
31 Mindless1 // Oct 21, 2008
Yogip,
If you are wanting to get closer to the divine then you should find meditation elsewhere. Neigong has nothing to do with religion. Some religion includes neigong meditation sure but the Mo Pai is a system, not a religion.
32 INTERNAL ARTS Mystery Revealed // Oct 22, 2008
I have to know many people can do extraordinary power, so the God within us my friends……. John Chang stay in Indonesia and he is low profile Master
33 Jonathan // Oct 26, 2008
Hello
That is an excellent article Chris, thank you for sharing with us.
This is my email: rez141@hotmail.com
Finding answers is sometimes extremely difficult, any help is always appreciated, however I understand that Jim, yourself and other practitioners of this art are probably getting tired of being harrassed by people wanting information and contact details about this art or how to learn it etc. So, to be honest, I will completely understand and respect it if no one wants to pass anything on.
Thank you for your time.
34 Spartan // Oct 27, 2008
Hello,all I think its great to hear many different thoughts on the subject of Mo Pai (nei kung).If Master chang would open up the doors and begin training all who would come, How many of us would last,This method is not for everyone its a Yang method which if done wrong can be faital.So I take my hat off toJim and all the sudents of Mopai who are progressing through out the levels .
35 Thunderbird // Oct 28, 2008
Spartan,
It’s like a big shiny new sports car that now that everyone has seen the video now wants one. What they don’t realize is they might not be able to afford it. This can be karmically, spiritually, or energetically. This is besides the fact that most people can’t concentrate for more than 5 seconds anyhow. Music songs are typically 2-3 minutes because that is the stretch of time people will listen to a song before getting ‘bored’. American culture just doesn’t have what it takes to honor systems like this. The few (.0000000000001) of Americans that have done well are the exception.
36 Spartan // Oct 28, 2008
Hi,Thunderbird you are correct and have stated nothing but the facts,If they would hear about some of the bad side effects that some poeple experience I doubt that they will still want that shinny new car!When you attempt to do this kind of empty force training their is always a price to be paid
the question for them is ,are they willing to pay the price ,your own personal situation comes in to play your health,are you in shape many,things have to be considered before you just say I want to train with john chang,If we could be john chang for a day and feel the things he feels and sees it would be to much for people to handle, Most people would die or loose their mind,but even john had to train to get to that level ,He has paid his price .This is a life time commitment!So I ask people to ask themselves two questions Do I have what it takes/Am I ready to put in the time to get good at this stuff .I hope that my words help people become clear on what they want do regarding this kind of training Becuase your life depends on it. God bless you all. train smart!
37 Jonathan // Oct 29, 2008
I think the both of you are totally correct on what you are saying. For alot of people, this could just be a fad, or a new toy to play with, and again you are both right about the reality and dangerous side of this sort of thing. There are a good number of people who have not considered either.
However you have to remember that not everyone who has posted here is going to be in that catagory. There are people here who have studied martial arts (and similar) for a long time, and maybe have not yet been able to find what they are looking for, exactly as the case was with Jim. Yes, some people might see a shiny new car, and suddenly want it (These are usually rich and arrogant people anyway), but some people may have spent years saving up their hard earned money to be able to afford that car one day.
Alot of people wont have had the money to go on quests to China and Indonesia etc, to personally seek knowledge face to face from people, so the internet might be their only way of finding such information for the time being, which may have led them straight to this article and hence the very topic we are disscussing.
Like I said, you are both exactly right and I have no debate there, just remember that everyone here will have come here for different reasons, and not all will be bad or vain.
Thanks guys.
P.S Not all of us are American
38 William // Oct 29, 2008
Well said, Jonathan.
39 Spartan // Oct 29, 2008
Hello, Jonathan I thank you for your warm words,I just want to help people really get what they are looking for by becoming clear and focused ,and you are correct about people posting here for various reasons and not all will be bad or in vain .But their intent makes it so,training is closer than we may think !and if any one has any questions about training email me at spartanarbitor@yahoo.com and I will be glad to help. We must help each other that way we all can grow together! train smart
40 Mindless1 // Oct 29, 2008
I cant believe how much BS there is floating around right now. You guys talk as if you know JC and you dont. Let’s start off with the whole sports car crap. Even JC wanted to be like Master Weird Banana after he saw the things he could do so even JC HIMSELF wanted the red sports car. As far as the practices, it takes you being able to quiet the mind. Physically it’s not dangerous, the breathing gets a bit difficult but whoopty doo. I cant speak for any of the actual high level training so for all I know it could very well be dangerous.
The problem with Kosta, Jim and Andreas is that they all got a bit too power hungry and wanting the spotlight. If you’ve ever read either one of Kosta’s books you can tell just by reading how arrogant and self centered he is. Jim, having a few videos made of him and wanting to be in documentaries aswell is on the power hungry side too. Andreas didnt train worth a crap, meaning he hardly EVER trained and when he did didnt take it seriously. All of us are the same. It doesnt matter if you live in China, Africa, Europe or the USA, people share common traits. John Chang on several occassions has turned away chinese aswell. The difference between JC and may of his students is that John has done very well in ridding himself of ego. He did go a bit carried away in showing off in the documentary but compared to everyone else out there he is and will always be a “saint”, so to speak.
So, with that said, let’s stop with all the assumptions will we?
41 Spartan // Oct 29, 2008
Hello, Mindless1 Im sorry if I have angered you ,that was not my intent,the things that I have stated are fact,I may not know John chang personally,but after reading both of kosta’s books I have come to understand their method of practice (just a little bit) after training a while I have come to understand how energy works (still learning every day) if you train yourself you will come to understand energy and you will see where Im comming from, if you have any questions email me at spartanarbitor@yahoo.com Id be glad to help you futher your training so that you can become that best you can,maybe we can learn from each other.train smart
42 Mindless1 // Oct 30, 2008
I hate to be the needle that bursts the proverbial bubble but…POP!! It’s a mistake for anyone to think that they can train using either one of Kosta’s books. What Kosta does is give you a piece here and there to a puzzle but doesnt give you anything more. You cannot successfully progress in the Mo Pai system using his book. The Mo Pai system is a mechanical system in the beginning meaning if you do it , it will work, regardless. The thing is though, is that you have to do it RIGHT. You cant read 300 pages of a 600 page novel and expect to have any idea of how it really ends or what happens.
43 Thunderbird // Oct 30, 2008
Regarding post 40
“So, with that said, let’s stop with all the assumptions will we?”
Assumptions made it post 40:
* John Chang wanted the red sports car
*physically it’s not dangerous
*all those mentioned are power hungry
*Andreas didn’t train hard
Now I will explain. John Chang did not likely want the rd sports car. Like most with a calling, you resist for as long as possible before the spirits make you give in. Your life will become difficult if you don’t…which happened to me. Physically it is dangerous since you are playing with circuits of the body. These circuits effect mind, body, organs, and mental well being. Many adepts along the way have already thoroughly documented physical problems they ran into along their journey for this argument to even be considered anymore. Why is making videos power hunger? give us speicifc examples from Kosta’s book that clearly show an ego. We will be waiting. How do you know how hard any of these people trained, like Andreas? fill us in. haha
44 Mindless1 // Oct 30, 2008
Thunderbird,
Here we go down the spiral of the ancient dangers of stilling the mind LMFAO!! Let’s start off with yet another assumption. You assume that I’m an outside observer.
Qigong, yoga, tai chi, etc are not dangerous. Seeing as how thousands and thousands of elderly people take up all of the above practices and have no problems at all then that should be proof enough. What I’m saying is that the odds of someone developing serious problems are that of a skydiver not surviving his jump. Any at all worries anyone will ever have can be easily taken care of by sitting your worried little behind on the earth and feeding it to it.
Doing a video for a documentary is ok. Blatanly showing off on the other hand isnt ok. John will tell you himself, if you ever meet him you can ask him, that he got carried away with the chopstick bit. He will also tell you about Andreas too, or maybe he wont tell you a thing because you have bad karma, I dont know. If youd like I’ll be more than happy to break out my old copy of Magus and Neikung both and quote you where you can tell Kosta is an arrogant ass.
The main reason there was such controversy around John teaching non chinese was because of Kosta and Andreas turned out. Andreas was lazy and Kosta thought of himself as the prodigal son. You see when you have let’s say 100 chinese that come in and ask you for training and you have 10 non chinese, you see way less non chinese so they make more of an impression when they turn out like Kosta and Andreas did. Andreas acts as though he can speak on behalf of JC when he cant. JC called Blair to come back so if he had any problems teaching he would say it himself, not through Andreas.
I will tell you that the only way anyone trains with JC now is if you have your ego in check and show effort in burning up karma and doing good deeds.
45 Luxen // Oct 30, 2008
Thanks for the dream.
The bird was interesting…
Hollywood would love the balls in the belly show!!!
Working on the 4 points.
How to make the yang hard? Directly from sun?
Push down through rear pass, moves front cool up?
Collects in a ring around old opening?
When fusing for spark, push hard and hold fast?
Thank you.
Always with heart first…
46 Thunderbird // Oct 31, 2008
as far as the elderly doing tai chi to prove its harmless. You likely are not initiated or you wold understand the forms in ‘intent’. Like Dion Fortune said you can take a shower in the morning to clean yourself or you can take a shower to cleanse yourself spiritually, like a smudge (electrons firing from the water creating a positive charge). They are both the same act yet vary greatly from intent. The same goes for meditation and breathing. The same techniques the women in the aerobics room do in the gym when I lift after yoga is the same I use for divination, speaking with spirits, hexing people, and manifesting things in general. But it’s the same exat thing? what differs in intent. I assumed you knew this. I’m still waiting for prrof on Andreas’s lainess and Kostas’s arrogance. Those further on the path also know karma doesn’t work like you think it does. Karma doesn’t exist like that, or like you think it does. Study up.
47 Thunderbird // Oct 31, 2008
Luxen,
I understand your post. Do you think heart problems can arise from reversing the microcosmic orbit? I know an old Ninjutsu man who had heart problems resulting from this habit which passed when he stopped.
48 Mindless1 // Oct 31, 2008
John Chang himself said that Andreas didnt practice like he should and also said that Kosta was full of himself. If you cant read the book and tell by Kosta’s words that he’s full of himself then you are a little dense. John Chang HIMSELF said that Andreas didnt practice like he should and Kosta was full of himself.
Karma does indeed work that way. If you are a piece of shit for most of your life then you have a shit load of bad karma but if you turn around and start being a good hearted person then you start burning up the karma, meditation and prayer can burn it up aswell, although rather slowly. In the Mo Pai system you dont completely free yourself from karma until later on but by level 4 you make a huge difference in the way karma effects. However, you can burn up bad karma through meditation and prayer. It’s taught in the Mo Pai system.
The problem with websites like this is that people read a book or two and get into a couple of conversations about it and think theyre an expert but news flash!! You arent. Ive met John and I’m no expert. Dont be so dense
49 Mindless1 // Oct 31, 2008
FYI, electrons are negatively charged
50 Chris // Oct 31, 2008
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent. If you are no expert, then please stop giving advice.
Readers, I warn you that many people have injured themselves through misapplication of qigong/neigong exercises. Despite some underinformed comments above, “common sense” and “internal alchemy” go together like peanut butter and mackerel.
51 Thunderbird // Oct 31, 2008
tell me where chang said these things. I thought you were going to cite examples of his arrogence? haha..
52 Mindless1 // Oct 31, 2008
JOHN HIMSELF, SPEAKING TO ME SAID KOSTA WAS FULL OF HIMSELF. IN THE NEIKUNG BOOK MOST OF THE CONVERSATIONS NEVER HAPPENED AND KOSTA ADDED A BUNCH THAT JOHN NEVER SAID. JOHN CAN SPEAK ENGLISH BUT WHEN HE’S DEEP INTO A CONVERSATION HE DOESNT USE ENGLISH SO ALOT OF THE BOOK WAS THROUGH A TRANSLATOR.
CHRIS, WHAT I MEANT WHEN I SAID I WAS NO EXPERT WAS THAT EVEN THOUGH IVE MET HIM AND CURRENTLY TRAIN IN THE MO PAI SYSTEM, IM STILL NO EXPERT. JIM ISNT AN EXPERT! THE ONLY MO PAI NEIKUNG EXPERT IS JOHN! I DO KNOW, FROM JOHN, THAT PEOPLE HAVE HAD SOME PHYSICAL PROBLEMS WITH THE MO PAI TRAINING BUT THE STUPID KOSTA BOOK EXAGERATES THE HELL OF OUT IT! IT’S LABOROUS WITH SOME OF THE BREATHING BUT THAT’S IT.
JOHN TOLD ME ABOUT KOSTA AND ANDREAS. JOHN, HIMSELF, IN THE FLESH SPOKE TO ME ABOUT THEM. THAT’S WHY THERE WAS SUCH A PROBLEM WITH HIM TEACHING NON CHINESE.
ONE EXAMPLE OF THE BOOK BEING COMPLETELY WRONG IS IN THE FIRST CHAPTER OF NEIKUNG. KOSTA IS TALKING TO JOHN ABOUT THE DIFFERENT AURAS AND HOW ONLY YELLOW CAN PROGRESS AND KOSTA GETS ALL BUTT HURT AND ASKS JOHN IF HE COULD TELL WHAT COLOR HIS AURA WAS, JOHN SAYS NOT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IM NOT AT FULL POWER, BUT NOT TO GIVE UP BECAUSE KOSTA IS STILL YOUNG. THAT CONVERSATION NEVER HAPPENED.
[Edited for civility.]
53 Thunderbird // Oct 31, 2008
so what leads you to believe he exagerates the dangers? I’m still waiting on that one, also. How did you deduce he was butt hurt about the aura thing? Your not clear on that. Besides that it isn’t clear to me still how you came to the conclusion Kosta is arrogent haha. Besides John didn’t tell you anything .
54 Mindless1 // Nov 1, 2008
I didnt come to the conclusion that Kosta is arrogant. I was told specifically BY JOHN!! I was speaking to John about the problem with westerners, John made a few remarks about Kosta and Andreas specifically. The problem with westerners is that we are either lazy or arrogant. Kosta started an arguement with John because John wouldnt train him anymore. Kosta is an arrogant ass. Andreas is lazy and didnt train which is why he never progressed.
You can sit there and doubt me all day long, I dont care. John still trains westerners but not just everyone that comes a knockin. I know John personally.
[Edited for civility.]
55 Thunderbird // Nov 1, 2008
No you don’t know John. But here is how you work, which is hard to figure out since it is very normal behavior. You make sweeping generalizations with the hopes that nobody calls your bluff and questions you. When someone does you make one more attempt at vague, sweeping statements which are unfounded. After this doesn’t work you name call and maybe try to redirect the focus away from the original thought of the bluff which was called. The facts you have arent facts, but are mere assumptions and conjecture. Karma is nothing like you mentioned it is. It would be like asking a child who God is and the child answers an old man with a grey beard in the sky, that was your equivalent. Karma isn’t real nor is it good stuff can make up for bad stuff type misinformation. Hitler could have conceivable avoided karma by redirecting an imbalance as the same Illuminati family members are reborn into the same blood and family avoiding karma, as you know it.
56 Thunderbird // Nov 1, 2008
oops not hard to figure out. If you don’t believe this is how it works….read your posts haha.
57 Mindless1 // Nov 1, 2008
If I wanted to I could go against my oath I could tell you his real last name and his place of residence.
58 Thunderbird // Nov 2, 2008
John has absolutely no idea who you are and you do not know him. Your tactics work on the school yard but not with adults. I will take as much energy as you want since you are giving it to me so freely. I will keep this up forever but understand there is a price.
59 Thunderbird // Nov 3, 2008
Nice try thunderbird. Ignorance is a plague, thanks for wrecking the gene pool = (equals in other words) I’m changing the subject and I can’t back up my numerous claims. Well you never said you had an email address with mopai in it….you must be legit. haha
60 Mindless1 // Nov 3, 2008
The only way to actually back up that I know John is to supply pictures, his real name and his location correct? I argued myself into a corner because I’m not going to supply his name and location for everyone out there.
61 Chris // Nov 3, 2008
Enough Mindless1! Thunderbird doesn’t actually care who you know, and neither do I. It certainly doesn’t change the fact that you were wrong about the relationship between neigong and religion, wrong about qigong, and wrong about the dangers of advanced practice. That is forgivable; we all have something we need to learn. I will not, however, tolerate any further digressions from either of you.
62 Gabe // Nov 16, 2008
Yea. I am one of the people who have become ill from trying to teach myself. I don’t care about “martial arts”, I care about healing, and reaching higher levels of “consciousness”.
I have attained ever-greater levels of consciousness from my own personal meditation. But if I am doing something wrong I don’t know what it is. I just know I am drained a lot. I have my ups and I have my downs, but I seem to have developed a slight, but “permanent” hindarence on myself.
I don’t really care about John Chang’s demonstration, you have to do it on your own is what I think. There’s a lot of bumps in the road but so far there’s nothing a determined person can’t get past, and nobody can -really- help you do it is my experience. Only yourself. Though it would be nice to hear experience from a “master” who isn’t a complete fraud like 99% of them out there.
63 Gabe // Nov 16, 2008
Oh, if I could describe the “illness” that you get from improper practice, I would call it an “energy leak”, its like some of your life-force is leaking into a void of nothing-ness.
64 Spartan // Nov 17, 2008
Hello, Gabe you say that you have gotten ill from trying to teach yourself, Let me guess you have mood swings from feeling very happy to very angry ,some days you have a lot of energy and somtimes you don’t.I can tell ,you must also be in a lot of pain! the reason for these side effects are because when you do these kind of power exersices you have to build up your never fibers to handle the chi going through your body.The next thing is try a lying down meditation for about 20 min.then take a hot bath in Epsom salt to take away the soreness your having.then you should seek a better method that is easy on the body and mind.Have a good one .
train smart!
65 Raj // Nov 18, 2008
Chris,
I have recently discovered Neigong. After 23 years of training in external arts like Hapkido, Kempo and Okinawan Karate…etc I know that Neigong is the missing piece of the puzzle I have been searching for. I am interested in internal healing and healing others since I suffer with chronic pain myself. I live in Southeastern Virginia and hoping I can find a qualified teacher that can guide me on this path. Thank you for all your insight and any guidance you can provide.
66 Thunderbird // Nov 18, 2008
Regarding post 64,
I don’t think minor inconveniences like soreness and energy fluctuations are any reason to stop internal training any more than a potential bodybuilder stop lifting because he feels sore and fatiqued after workouts. Its a part of the process. Unfortunatly we live in a culture than is very weak (mind and bodied) and we have this egocentric mentality that we don’t deserve anything but positive everything at all times. I say keep pluggin away since it seems like a sign of progress to me.
67 Chris // Nov 18, 2008
Raj,
My serious advice: don’t believe everything you read on the Internet!
Gabe and Thunderbird,
There are two ways to learn the difference between a temporary discomfort and the onset of a disease state. The first, is to consult an expert. The second…well, that’s the hard way. Some schools avoid directed meditations, because the likelihood of achieving a net positive effect through self-guided practice is low.
68 Beavis // Nov 18, 2008
I’d like to just point out a little oddity in the above messege. You can easily find an expert in basically anything just by hopping online or picking up a phone book but you cant find an expert in any kind of qigong or neigong or meditation period. It’s not like going down the road to McLee’s FastFood Meditational.
69 Raj // Nov 18, 2008
Chris,
Thank you. I do filter what I come across online and will wait for proper guidance before trying these excercises. Hopefully the adage will hold true that “when the student is ready, the master will appear”. Until then I will be at the ready…
70 Thunderbird // Nov 18, 2008
I only think the net positive results are slower to come, but not low as in probability. Its like successful athletes, business men, social status, intelligence etc. It is certainly easier when a path sis laid before you but there are trailblazers in the above mentioned scenarios. Some people just have ‘it’ and once they begin a quest the rest develops, whether they are solo or in a group.
71 Thunderbird // Nov 18, 2008
Without going into much detail I have been tested by inner planes beings as far as an initiation. This initiation could also have happened from some master walking around. The gods are always watching those who have the gift to walk between the worlds and when you are ready, they let you know they have been there with you!
72 Beavis // Nov 18, 2008
That’s the biggest crock of Sh&% I’ve ever heard. You arent initiated into a damn thing
73 Chris // Nov 19, 2008
However difficult finding a teacher might be, mastering the lessons alone is surely harder.
If you couldn’t afford to buy a car, would you try to build one instead? And pray the brakes work as intended?
74 Chris // Nov 19, 2008
True. In the long run, we all are successful or we are dead. Either way, our problems are solved.
75 Thunderbird // Nov 19, 2008
I just don’t believe in that common rhetoric about needing masters to proceed and needing them for initiation. Like the plains Indians shamans, initiation comes from the Gods in some cases.
76 Butthead // Nov 20, 2008
Indian Shamans didnt do things like Tibetans practicing Tummo either. You can initiate yourself with DMT, as you obviously do but it’s not the samething as any kind of power giving meditation. Yes you should seek a master if you wish to develop any kind of major power ie tummo or mo pai type power but if you want to feel your hand tingle then just do qigong on your own. Go buy the book Healing Power of Qi and you have years worth of practice in the book.
Im perfectly fine with building a car on my own. All you need are tools and a manual, follow it to the letter and you have a fine running car. End of story
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