Martial Development

Martial arts for personal development

Return of the Jedi: Five Questions with a Neigong Expert

Tags: , , , ,
144 Comments

內功 neigong (pronounced nay-gung): the science of observing, strengthening and directing bio-energy, or chi.

The Magus of Java

A repository of extraordinary skills such as telekinesis, pyrogenesis, telepathy, remote viewing and levitation, the esoteric Eastern school known as Mo-Pai has been described as a real-life order of Jedi Knights. Some have even speculated that its history inspired George Lucas’ script for Attack of the Clones.

Among the ancient neigong lineages still in existence today, the Mo-Pai is characterized by an unusual openness. The school and its headmaster, known by the alias “John Chang”, has been the subject of two recent books and a video documentary.

Jim McMillan, who identifies himself as a longtime disciple of John Chang, has graciously agreed to share a few of his experiences with Martial Development readers:

How did you first become acquainted with the esoteric practice of neigong?

My long-standing relationship with martial arts had become a dead-end journey. I recognized that the mentality of most practitioners, systems and schools is very self-centered: practitioners believe only “their” style is completely capable, and that any student can reach the level of past masters.

That is why I took my training in another direction around 1988, give or take a year. After taking a seminar from a Brazilian Jujitsu guy (can’t remember his name), I realized that I had wasted years of my time training in Taekwondo and Hapkido. I was easily defeated. It was a wake up call.

After taking some more classes, I tried combining BJJ with my previous styles, but this didn’t make me feel any better. I was getting too old, bored of the practice and physically tired. I realized it was also time to move over, for younger men to take over my martial arts school.

Ring of Fire

One evening, I was watching TV and saw a documentary called “Ring of Fire“. I heard a call deep within my soul. It was an inner compulsion that I had never felt before. I knew instantaneously that I had to find this man, who could perform these strange things.

After two years of researching, I finally decided to just go. A week and a half later, I found my teacher in a city of three million on the other side of the world.

It is often said that a traditional master will test an aspirant’s character and resolve, before deciding whether to accept them as a disciple. Did you face any such trials, or were you accepted immediately?

I wish the custom you speak of were true. However, thrill of being accepted by Pak (master) John Chang made up for any apparent absence of traditional testing.

Upon my arrival, it took me all of two weeks to locate John. I could only meet with him for a few minutes before I had to return to the airport, and catch my return flight home! Due to the rush, we had little time for formalities. I found that Pak John was modern in many respects, and very traditional in few others.

I didn’t know what to expect from a culture I was totally unaccustomed with. At our first meeting, Pak John was grabbed my arm unexpectedly and told me to flex it, to see if I had enough strength for the training. After that he said, “I’ll accept you.” And that was that.

In the beginning and according to Asian custom, I was prepared to sit in front of the master’s house, and patiently for him to answer my questions. But I didn’t have to, thank God!

What preconceived notions about qigong/neigong masters or methods, if any, has your personal experience since proven incorrect?

My neigong training has brought fulfillment in ways I never anticipated, and I now see life in a totally different way.

In the Mo Pai, there is a vital link between the present and the past. I refer to my teacher’s current relationship with his own (long dead) master, who visits at Pak John’s request during the Chinese New Year.

They speak on matters that I am not privy to, as I am not conversant in Indonesian, nor am I at the level where I can hear the spirit directly. However, the master’s spirit demonstrates visually that he does exist and is present at these meetings.

To be honest I was willing to do whatever it took (except for one thing) to become a student, and attain certain abilities that I had personally seen. While on my journey, I have found a new sense of profound awareness about my relationship with my creator, God. I did not expect such a thing would happen.

What sacrifices–time, effort, money, et cetera–are required of a student in the Mo Pai? How do these demands compare to your previous experience in various martial arts schools?

Actually, the sacrifices come naturally, as they would in pursuit of any other sincere interest we have. But yes, there are sacrifices, and I have made some that were life changing.

I am frequently asked about the sex issue (“conserving jing”). While my normal male hunger remains fully charged, my deep desire has become less focused on sex, and on future goals. I was glad to discover I could actually exert control over my natural instincts! I found that I didn’t have to be a slave to my instincts, which really made me feel better about myself.

Initially, I tried to stay single, and did so for over ten years. However, this took a toll on me, in the form of loneliness and depression. Later, I married.

Building up the dantian isn’t what most people think. You are not guaranteed great health.

My wife and son have tolerated the time spent on trips and in training. I try to practice when they are in bed, in the early morning or late evening; this way I have avoided too much trouble.

Money wasn’t a big issue for me initially, since I remained single for so long. Now that I am married, money is more of an issue. Prior to marriage I usually spent a little over three thousand dollars yearly to visit my teacher. However, the cost has sharply risen since I last visited.

How has this training affected your physical and emotional health? Has it made your life easier, or harder?

My health actually improved since I started in neigong. The deep breathing in our first level of training is actually very beneficial, as many of you already know. However, being that we all are very different, the effects/results will show differently in each of us.

I actually overcame a very severe back problem, and became so healthy that I went many years without missing a single day of work.

I also attribute my improved heath to maturity. You come to recognize a larger picture in life than what you had before. During the earlier period of my martial arts training, I always seemed to have some kind of ailment I had to heal or deal with, but I found in the later years that my meditation helped not only my physical condition, but my sparring as well. Still, this wasn’t enough to convince me to continue with martial arts.

My neigong training has brought fulfillment in ways I never anticipated, and I now see life in a totally different way. It caused me to understand my relationship with my Lord God as never before. It was like I was somehow infused with knowing him—without intentionally seeking this knowledge. This had a great impact upon my emotional state, and helped me through my prior depressive condition I had been struggling with.

Meditation is a very healthy thing to do, both physically and mentally. Your eyes are opened to aspects you wouldn’t ordinarily see.

Building up the dantian isn’t what most people think. You are not guaranteed great health. In fact, a few Western students became ill from training incorrectly. Although I don’t have concrete evidence, my observations suggest that if one has greed, power or any other negative desire in his heart, they will have health problems.

Many readers are interested in learning more about neikung, but don’t know where to start. Do you have any advice to offer?

Concerning admittance into the Mo Pai, I must always discuss every proposal with my teacher. Not everyone can be admitted. Nevertheless, anyone can contact me, and I will try to reply to everyone.

Categories: Health and Fitness · Martial Arts News · Meditation · Qigong · Spirituality

144 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Dojo Rat // Sep 17, 2008

    What I find interesting and compelling is that he found the God- within himself.
    No Church, religous dogma etc.
    Thanks for this interesting post–

  • 2 chris // Sep 17, 2008

    Hi Im realy interested in neigong how do i contact
    jim mcmillan thank you
    please reply

  • 3 Chris // Sep 17, 2008

    Unless or until Jim leaves public contact information here, you may post your questions below. (He has left his email address on other posts, but I will let him decide when and where to repost it.) Jim is not the only Mo-Pai member listening, by the way.

  • 4 Spartan // Sep 18, 2008

    HI, Jim is it possible to for you to email me at .spartanarbitor@yahoo.com

  • 5 Jeremy // Sep 18, 2008

    Dear Jim,

    I remember seeing the demonstrations by Pak John Chang as a young child and having the image stick with me to this day. I also remember the feeling when I heard that he was not longer teaching or accepting students – not good! Reading this has given me a feeling that I might too be as fortunate as you one day. If you get the time to pass on your contact details, I would really appreciate it!

    Thanks,

    Jeremy

  • 6 Mindlezz1 // Sep 18, 2008

    Hi Jim, it’s a pleasure ‘meeting’ you and thank you for sharing your incredible experiences. I’m not really sure what to say or even how to ask but I am very interested in contacting you. If you have the time would you be so kind as to shoot me an email?
    dpumpernickels@yahoo.com

  • 7 chris // Sep 19, 2008

    Hi Jim its Chris here any chance of a email
    id appreciate it thank you

  • 8 Uzo // Sep 19, 2008

    Hi Chris,
    I would appreciate it greatly if you could forward my interest on to Jim in regards to learning Neigong. My email address is:

    dukeswharf (at) gmail (dot) com

    Peace & Blessings
    Uzo

  • 9 Mindlezz1 // Sep 19, 2008

    Jim is a very busy but kind hearted man. He will reply soon enough

  • 10 Daniel // Sep 22, 2008

    Hi Jim my name is Daniel and I dont if you read these emails or not but I was hoping and wondering if you could share some more of your wisdom and expiernces of neigong. Please feel free to email me at d.rome@tmail.com or dnl_rome@yahoo.com thanks it would be GREATLEY apperciated and valued

  • 11 Ikigai // Sep 22, 2008

    Quite interesting! I hadn’t heard of this gentleman before now.

  • 12 Sydney Familiar // Sep 23, 2008

    Thank you for posting this! Will there be a part II to this brief interview? I would also like to contact Jim when possible.

  • 13 Chris // Sep 23, 2008

    Sydney, none of the other professed Mo-Pai members I conversed with have been as forthcoming as Jim McMillan. Mo-Pai is not the only living neigong school, however, so maybe I will eventually write more on this subject. Though, actually, I have mixed feelings about doing so.

  • 14 Tony // Sep 24, 2008

    Aloha Jim McMillan,

    I live in Honolulu, Hawaii. I am a long time student of life and continue to be. All the material I have seen on Sifu JC or the Mo-pai continue to not only intrigue, but strike a chord inside of me. As a Thai-Chinese, I would like to embrace that Taoist part of my heritage, but have yet to encounter a chance. If you have time, would you email me at:

    t o n y @ f r e s h m a n g 0. n e t

    Thank you,

    Tony

  • 15 Tony // Sep 24, 2008

    Sorry, I was trying to avoid the web crawlers and made a mistake in my email:

    it should be (w/o the spaces):

    t o n y @ f r e s h m a n g o . n e t

    Thank you again.

    Tony

  • 16 Martin C. // Sep 25, 2008

    Great post! THANK YOU for taking the time to share it with us.

    -Martin C.
    http://www.inspiringcinema.com

  • 17 Mark // Sep 29, 2008

    Hi Jim,

    Thank you for sharing. The depth of your life experience can be felt through your words. I would like to hear more on your opinion on what type of person suceeds in the training as well as the obsticles you encountered along the path. This would greatly benefit all of us on our journey.

    I would love to speak with you more when you find the time since in the not too distant future I plan on seeking out Pak John Chang as well, hopefully with a little Grace.

    Thanks for your time in advance.

    Mark
    markbartosh@gmail.com
    NYC

  • 18 William // Oct 6, 2008

    Chris,

    you have written a number of articles on Mo Pai and John Chang. Why do you now dangle the carrot in front of people but have hesitations to give more details, when you write:”Mo-Pai is not the only living neigong school, however, so maybe I will eventually write more on this subject.”

    In the end any practice requires dedication over many years and the guidance of an experienced master. So giving some general information for those searching honestly should be of any harm, don’t you think.

  • 19 Mindless1 // Oct 6, 2008

    William, if you are meant to find a teacher you will, if not dont dwell. You can do many a great things via a good book. Healing promise of Qi for example can help anybody with basic cultivation and circulation. You may never find someone like John Chang but you can figure things out on your own. As far as the ‘dangers’ go, it’s a myth. In extreme and very rare cases do you ever , EVER get into danger while training.

  • 20 Chris // Oct 6, 2008

    Chris, you have written a number of articles on Mo Pai and John Chang. Why do you now dangle the carrot in front of people but have hesitations to give more details, when you write:”Mo-Pai is not the only living neigong school, however, so maybe I will eventually write more on this subject.”

    I have thus far written nearly three hundred pages on qigong and martial arts, at considerable personal effort and for trivial compensation. And now you are complaining that I haven’t done enough? Seriously?

    Mo-Pai is mentioned on maybe four of these pages. I haven’t mentioned it more often, despite obvious reader interest, because it is simply not my particular area of expertise. That would be reason enough not to go into greater detail.

    In the end any practice requires dedication over many years and the guidance of an experienced master. So giving some general information for those searching honestly should [not] be of any harm, don’t you think.

    This website is full of general information! Jim and I gave you a free piece of cake here, and you demand a scoop of ice cream to go with it. Maybe this is how Western students earn a reputation for ingratitude…

    Anyway, do you have any specific questions?

  • 21 William // Oct 6, 2008

    Chris,

    please don’t misunderstand me.
    Your site is great and people are certainly thankful for the information you provide.
    But you know that many people are very interested in this topic as you can see from the number of comments.
    And also so far it seems that there are not really any other schools similar to Mopai. But then you say “By the way, I know of one other school. Hmm, shall I let you in on this. I might. But perhaps better not.” If you don’t want to share this information, and not even hints, why mention it? That’s what I meant.
    So my specific question is: Which other school is there?

  • 22 Chris // Oct 7, 2008

    There are plenty of reasons for sharing this much, and there are plenty of reasons for not sharing more. To address them briefly here would not do them justice, I think.

    Long story short, I recommend you start by reading Qigong Fever.

  • 23 William // Oct 8, 2008

    I’ve come across that book before. Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll buy it.
    Have you had a look at the master piece on China by Joseph Needham? It seems that in some volume (I think 5) there is good information on internal arts. I haven’t looked at it yet myself.

  • 24 Mindless 1 // Oct 8, 2008

    I’m not the most intelligent guy but I fair pretty well when it comes to common sense and I’ve pretty much grasped some of the training methods out of the magus book I think. In the end all the masters end up on a pillow, lotus position, doing sitting meditation. I say screw qigong, not to be rude, but from my understanding qigong circulates and you want to accumulate and do inner alchemy work.

  • 25 Chris // Oct 8, 2008

    William, I have not read any of Joesph Needham’s books.

    Mindless1, please, no more “common sense” advice on this subject.

  • 26 Mindless 1 // Oct 9, 2008

    Hey look, I understand that everybody loves to keep up the tradition of myths but that’s exactly what they are MYTHS. Qigong, yoga, they are both great for certain things but not my certain things. Common sense, if you actually have it, can keep you out of trouble. Matter of fact one of the greatest myths to keep that student teacher relationship so tight is that the practices can be dangerous. The odds of any practice being a danger to anybody is the odds of me going to the moon.

  • 27 KHN // Oct 11, 2008

    Hi Jim,

    I was wondering if there is any possible way I could create a line of communication with you or Master “John Chang.” I have so much questions I would like to ask and so many things I want to learn.

    I was also curious if I could possibly one day meet you or “John Chang” in person?

    I’m willing to make the trip to meet you in the summer to learn more about meditation, self-preservation, ideologies, and if possible neigong itself. And I willing to make the trip to meet “John Chang,” and maybe ask to be his apprentice, if denied, even a little advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

    p.s. If Jim is not available, can you provide me the information to contact him Chris? Or possibly anyone else.

  • 28 Eclipz // Oct 18, 2008

    Jim McMillan I am interested in learning from you, and your lineage. Please send me an email, it will be greatly appreciated.
    I just purchased both of the books about John Chang and I am very intent on learning this knowledge. So if you could assist me in any way it would be great.

    Thanks again.

  • 29 Eclipz // Oct 18, 2008

    my email address is eclipz2g@yahoo.com

  • 30 yogip // Oct 20, 2008

    Hi Jim,

    I really counldn’t care less about these mystical and metaphyiscal powers. I would however like to delve into this meditation and ask god or the divine/higher self some serious questions regarding my personal journey…..

    So honestly I have to ask this question I have to ask, can you help me to find god and establish a communion with him, which is quite similar to what you have done and achieved

    Regards

  • 31 Mindless1 // Oct 21, 2008

    Yogip,

    If you are wanting to get closer to the divine then you should find meditation elsewhere. Neigong has nothing to do with religion. Some religion includes neigong meditation sure but the Mo Pai is a system, not a religion.

  • 32 INTERNAL ARTS Mystery Revealed // Oct 22, 2008

    I have to know many people can do extraordinary power, so the God within us my friends……. John Chang stay in Indonesia and he is low profile Master

  • 33 Jonathan // Oct 26, 2008

    Hello

    That is an excellent article Chris, thank you for sharing with us.

    This is my email: rez141@hotmail.com

    Finding answers is sometimes extremely difficult, any help is always appreciated, however I understand that Jim, yourself and other practitioners of this art are probably getting tired of being harrassed by people wanting information and contact details about this art or how to learn it etc. So, to be honest, I will completely understand and respect it if no one wants to pass anything on.

    Thank you for your time.

  • 34 Spartan // Oct 27, 2008

    Hello,all I think its great to hear many different thoughts on the subject of Mo Pai (nei kung).If Master chang would open up the doors and begin training all who would come, How many of us would last,This method is not for everyone its a Yang method which if done wrong can be faital.So I take my hat off toJim and all the sudents of Mopai who are progressing through out the levels .

  • 35 Thunderbird // Oct 28, 2008

    Spartan,

    It’s like a big shiny new sports car that now that everyone has seen the video now wants one. What they don’t realize is they might not be able to afford it. This can be karmically, spiritually, or energetically. This is besides the fact that most people can’t concentrate for more than 5 seconds anyhow. Music songs are typically 2-3 minutes because that is the stretch of time people will listen to a song before getting ‘bored’. American culture just doesn’t have what it takes to honor systems like this. The few (.0000000000001) of Americans that have done well are the exception.

  • 36 Spartan // Oct 28, 2008

    Hi,Thunderbird you are correct and have stated nothing but the facts,If they would hear about some of the bad side effects that some poeple experience I doubt that they will still want that shinny new car!When you attempt to do this kind of empty force training their is always a price to be paid
    the question for them is ,are they willing to pay the price ,your own personal situation comes in to play your health,are you in shape many,things have to be considered before you just say I want to train with john chang,If we could be john chang for a day and feel the things he feels and sees it would be to much for people to handle, Most people would die or loose their mind,but even john had to train to get to that level ,He has paid his price .This is a life time commitment!So I ask people to ask themselves two questions Do I have what it takes/Am I ready to put in the time to get good at this stuff .I hope that my words help people become clear on what they want do regarding this kind of training Becuase your life depends on it. God bless you all. train smart!

  • 37 Jonathan // Oct 29, 2008

    I think the both of you are totally correct on what you are saying. For alot of people, this could just be a fad, or a new toy to play with, and again you are both right about the reality and dangerous side of this sort of thing. There are a good number of people who have not considered either.

    However you have to remember that not everyone who has posted here is going to be in that catagory. There are people here who have studied martial arts (and similar) for a long time, and maybe have not yet been able to find what they are looking for, exactly as the case was with Jim. Yes, some people might see a shiny new car, and suddenly want it (These are usually rich and arrogant people anyway), but some people may have spent years saving up their hard earned money to be able to afford that car one day.

    Alot of people wont have had the money to go on quests to China and Indonesia etc, to personally seek knowledge face to face from people, so the internet might be their only way of finding such information for the time being, which may have led them straight to this article and hence the very topic we are disscussing.

    Like I said, you are both exactly right and I have no debate there, just remember that everyone here will have come here for different reasons, and not all will be bad or vain.

    Thanks guys.

    P.S Not all of us are American :)

  • 38 William // Oct 29, 2008

    Well said, Jonathan.

  • 39 Spartan // Oct 29, 2008

    Hello, Jonathan I thank you for your warm words,I just want to help people really get what they are looking for by becoming clear and focused ,and you are correct about people posting here for various reasons and not all will be bad or in vain .But their intent makes it so,training is closer than we may think !and if any one has any questions about training email me at spartanarbitor@yahoo.com and I will be glad to help. We must help each other that way we all can grow together! train smart

  • 40 Mindless1 // Oct 29, 2008

    I cant believe how much BS there is floating around right now. You guys talk as if you know JC and you dont. Let’s start off with the whole sports car crap. Even JC wanted to be like Master Weird Banana after he saw the things he could do so even JC HIMSELF wanted the red sports car. As far as the practices, it takes you being able to quiet the mind. Physically it’s not dangerous, the breathing gets a bit difficult but whoopty doo. I cant speak for any of the actual high level training so for all I know it could very well be dangerous.

    The problem with Kosta, Jim and Andreas is that they all got a bit too power hungry and wanting the spotlight. If you’ve ever read either one of Kosta’s books you can tell just by reading how arrogant and self centered he is. Jim, having a few videos made of him and wanting to be in documentaries aswell is on the power hungry side too. Andreas didnt train worth a crap, meaning he hardly EVER trained and when he did didnt take it seriously. All of us are the same. It doesnt matter if you live in China, Africa, Europe or the USA, people share common traits. John Chang on several occassions has turned away chinese aswell. The difference between JC and may of his students is that John has done very well in ridding himself of ego. He did go a bit carried away in showing off in the documentary but compared to everyone else out there he is and will always be a “saint”, so to speak.

    So, with that said, let’s stop with all the assumptions will we?

  • 41 Spartan // Oct 29, 2008

    Hello, Mindless1 Im sorry if I have angered you ,that was not my intent,the things that I have stated are fact,I may not know John chang personally,but after reading both of kosta’s books I have come to understand their method of practice (just a little bit) after training a while I have come to understand how energy works (still learning every day) if you train yourself you will come to understand energy and you will see where Im comming from, if you have any questions email me at spartanarbitor@yahoo.com Id be glad to help you futher your training so that you can become that best you can,maybe we can learn from each other.train smart

  • 42 Mindless1 // Oct 30, 2008

    I hate to be the needle that bursts the proverbial bubble but…POP!! It’s a mistake for anyone to think that they can train using either one of Kosta’s books. What Kosta does is give you a piece here and there to a puzzle but doesnt give you anything more. You cannot successfully progress in the Mo Pai system using his book. The Mo Pai system is a mechanical system in the beginning meaning if you do it , it will work, regardless. The thing is though, is that you have to do it RIGHT. You cant read 300 pages of a 600 page novel and expect to have any idea of how it really ends or what happens.

  • 43 Thunderbird // Oct 30, 2008

    Regarding post 40

    “So, with that said, let’s stop with all the assumptions will we?”

    Assumptions made it post 40:
    * John Chang wanted the red sports car
    *physically it’s not dangerous
    *all those mentioned are power hungry
    *Andreas didn’t train hard
    Now I will explain. John Chang did not likely want the rd sports car. Like most with a calling, you resist for as long as possible before the spirits make you give in. Your life will become difficult if you don’t…which happened to me. Physically it is dangerous since you are playing with circuits of the body. These circuits effect mind, body, organs, and mental well being. Many adepts along the way have already thoroughly documented physical problems they ran into along their journey for this argument to even be considered anymore. Why is making videos power hunger? give us speicifc examples from Kosta’s book that clearly show an ego. We will be waiting. How do you know how hard any of these people trained, like Andreas? fill us in. haha

  • 44 Mindless1 // Oct 30, 2008

    Thunderbird,

    Here we go down the spiral of the ancient dangers of stilling the mind LMFAO!! Let’s start off with yet another assumption. You assume that I’m an outside observer.

    Qigong, yoga, tai chi, etc are not dangerous. Seeing as how thousands and thousands of elderly people take up all of the above practices and have no problems at all then that should be proof enough. What I’m saying is that the odds of someone developing serious problems are that of a skydiver not surviving his jump. Any at all worries anyone will ever have can be easily taken care of by sitting your worried little behind on the earth and feeding it to it.

    Doing a video for a documentary is ok. Blatanly showing off on the other hand isnt ok. John will tell you himself, if you ever meet him you can ask him, that he got carried away with the chopstick bit. He will also tell you about Andreas too, or maybe he wont tell you a thing because you have bad karma, I dont know. If youd like I’ll be more than happy to break out my old copy of Magus and Neikung both and quote you where you can tell Kosta is an arrogant ass.

    The main reason there was such controversy around John teaching non chinese was because of Kosta and Andreas turned out. Andreas was lazy and Kosta thought of himself as the prodigal son. You see when you have let’s say 100 chinese that come in and ask you for training and you have 10 non chinese, you see way less non chinese so they make more of an impression when they turn out like Kosta and Andreas did. Andreas acts as though he can speak on behalf of JC when he cant. JC called Blair to come back so if he had any problems teaching he would say it himself, not through Andreas.

    I will tell you that the only way anyone trains with JC now is if you have your ego in check and show effort in burning up karma and doing good deeds.

  • 45 Luxen // Oct 30, 2008

    Thanks for the dream.
    The bird was interesting…
    Hollywood would love the balls in the belly show!!!
    Working on the 4 points.
    How to make the yang hard? Directly from sun?
    Push down through rear pass, moves front cool up?
    Collects in a ring around old opening?
    When fusing for spark, push hard and hold fast?
    Thank you.
    Always with heart first…

  • 46 Thunderbird // Oct 31, 2008

    as far as the elderly doing tai chi to prove its harmless. You likely are not initiated or you wold understand the forms in ‘intent’. Like Dion Fortune said you can take a shower in the morning to clean yourself or you can take a shower to cleanse yourself spiritually, like a smudge (electrons firing from the water creating a positive charge). They are both the same act yet vary greatly from intent. The same goes for meditation and breathing. The same techniques the women in the aerobics room do in the gym when I lift after yoga is the same I use for divination, speaking with spirits, hexing people, and manifesting things in general. But it’s the same exat thing? what differs in intent. I assumed you knew this. I’m still waiting for prrof on Andreas’s lainess and Kostas’s arrogance. Those further on the path also know karma doesn’t work like you think it does. Karma doesn’t exist like that, or like you think it does. Study up.

  • 47 Thunderbird // Oct 31, 2008

    Luxen,
    I understand your post. Do you think heart problems can arise from reversing the microcosmic orbit? I know an old Ninjutsu man who had heart problems resulting from this habit which passed when he stopped.

  • 48 Mindless1 // Oct 31, 2008

    John Chang himself said that Andreas didnt practice like he should and also said that Kosta was full of himself. If you cant read the book and tell by Kosta’s words that he’s full of himself then you are a little dense. John Chang HIMSELF said that Andreas didnt practice like he should and Kosta was full of himself.

    Karma does indeed work that way. If you are a piece of shit for most of your life then you have a shit load of bad karma but if you turn around and start being a good hearted person then you start burning up the karma, meditation and prayer can burn it up aswell, although rather slowly. In the Mo Pai system you dont completely free yourself from karma until later on but by level 4 you make a huge difference in the way karma effects. However, you can burn up bad karma through meditation and prayer. It’s taught in the Mo Pai system.

    The problem with websites like this is that people read a book or two and get into a couple of conversations about it and think theyre an expert but news flash!! You arent. Ive met John and I’m no expert. Dont be so dense

  • 49 Mindless1 // Oct 31, 2008

    FYI, electrons are negatively charged

  • 50 Chris // Oct 31, 2008

    The problem with websites like this is that people read a book or two and get into a couple of conversations about it and think theyre an expert but news flash!! You arent. Ive met John and I’m no expert.

    Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent. If you are no expert, then please stop giving advice.

    Readers, I warn you that many people have injured themselves through misapplication of qigong/neigong exercises. Despite some underinformed comments above, “common sense” and “internal alchemy” go together like peanut butter and mackerel.

  • 51 Thunderbird // Oct 31, 2008

    tell me where chang said these things. I thought you were going to cite examples of his arrogence? haha..

  • 52 Mindless1 // Oct 31, 2008

    JOHN HIMSELF, SPEAKING TO ME SAID KOSTA WAS FULL OF HIMSELF. IN THE NEIKUNG BOOK MOST OF THE CONVERSATIONS NEVER HAPPENED AND KOSTA ADDED A BUNCH THAT JOHN NEVER SAID. JOHN CAN SPEAK ENGLISH BUT WHEN HE’S DEEP INTO A CONVERSATION HE DOESNT USE ENGLISH SO ALOT OF THE BOOK WAS THROUGH A TRANSLATOR.

    CHRIS, WHAT I MEANT WHEN I SAID I WAS NO EXPERT WAS THAT EVEN THOUGH IVE MET HIM AND CURRENTLY TRAIN IN THE MO PAI SYSTEM, IM STILL NO EXPERT. JIM ISNT AN EXPERT! THE ONLY MO PAI NEIKUNG EXPERT IS JOHN! I DO KNOW, FROM JOHN, THAT PEOPLE HAVE HAD SOME PHYSICAL PROBLEMS WITH THE MO PAI TRAINING BUT THE STUPID KOSTA BOOK EXAGERATES THE HELL OF OUT IT! IT’S LABOROUS WITH SOME OF THE BREATHING BUT THAT’S IT.

    JOHN TOLD ME ABOUT KOSTA AND ANDREAS. JOHN, HIMSELF, IN THE FLESH SPOKE TO ME ABOUT THEM. THAT’S WHY THERE WAS SUCH A PROBLEM WITH HIM TEACHING NON CHINESE.

    ONE EXAMPLE OF THE BOOK BEING COMPLETELY WRONG IS IN THE FIRST CHAPTER OF NEIKUNG. KOSTA IS TALKING TO JOHN ABOUT THE DIFFERENT AURAS AND HOW ONLY YELLOW CAN PROGRESS AND KOSTA GETS ALL BUTT HURT AND ASKS JOHN IF HE COULD TELL WHAT COLOR HIS AURA WAS, JOHN SAYS NOT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IM NOT AT FULL POWER, BUT NOT TO GIVE UP BECAUSE KOSTA IS STILL YOUNG. THAT CONVERSATION NEVER HAPPENED.

    [Edited for civility.]

  • 53 Thunderbird // Oct 31, 2008

    so what leads you to believe he exagerates the dangers? I’m still waiting on that one, also. How did you deduce he was butt hurt about the aura thing? Your not clear on that. Besides that it isn’t clear to me still how you came to the conclusion Kosta is arrogent haha. Besides John didn’t tell you anything .

  • 54 Mindless1 // Nov 1, 2008

    I didnt come to the conclusion that Kosta is arrogant. I was told specifically BY JOHN!! I was speaking to John about the problem with westerners, John made a few remarks about Kosta and Andreas specifically. The problem with westerners is that we are either lazy or arrogant. Kosta started an arguement with John because John wouldnt train him anymore. Kosta is an arrogant ass. Andreas is lazy and didnt train which is why he never progressed.

    You can sit there and doubt me all day long, I dont care. John still trains westerners but not just everyone that comes a knockin. I know John personally.

    [Edited for civility.]

  • 55 Thunderbird // Nov 1, 2008

    No you don’t know John. But here is how you work, which is hard to figure out since it is very normal behavior. You make sweeping generalizations with the hopes that nobody calls your bluff and questions you. When someone does you make one more attempt at vague, sweeping statements which are unfounded. After this doesn’t work you name call and maybe try to redirect the focus away from the original thought of the bluff which was called. The facts you have arent facts, but are mere assumptions and conjecture. Karma is nothing like you mentioned it is. It would be like asking a child who God is and the child answers an old man with a grey beard in the sky, that was your equivalent. Karma isn’t real nor is it good stuff can make up for bad stuff type misinformation. Hitler could have conceivable avoided karma by redirecting an imbalance as the same Illuminati family members are reborn into the same blood and family avoiding karma, as you know it.

  • 56 Thunderbird // Nov 1, 2008

    oops not hard to figure out. If you don’t believe this is how it works….read your posts haha.

  • 57 Mindless1 // Nov 1, 2008

    If I wanted to I could go against my oath I could tell you his real last name and his place of residence.

  • 58 Thunderbird // Nov 2, 2008

    John has absolutely no idea who you are and you do not know him. Your tactics work on the school yard but not with adults. I will take as much energy as you want since you are giving it to me so freely. I will keep this up forever but understand there is a price.

  • 59 Thunderbird // Nov 3, 2008

    Nice try thunderbird. Ignorance is a plague, thanks for wrecking the gene pool = (equals in other words) I’m changing the subject and I can’t back up my numerous claims. Well you never said you had an email address with mopai in it….you must be legit. haha

  • 60 Mindless1 // Nov 3, 2008

    The only way to actually back up that I know John is to supply pictures, his real name and his location correct? I argued myself into a corner because I’m not going to supply his name and location for everyone out there.

  • 61 Chris // Nov 3, 2008

    Enough Mindless1! Thunderbird doesn’t actually care who you know, and neither do I. It certainly doesn’t change the fact that you were wrong about the relationship between neigong and religion, wrong about qigong, and wrong about the dangers of advanced practice. That is forgivable; we all have something we need to learn. I will not, however, tolerate any further digressions from either of you.

  • 62 Gabe // Nov 16, 2008

    Yea. I am one of the people who have become ill from trying to teach myself. I don’t care about “martial arts”, I care about healing, and reaching higher levels of “consciousness”.

    I have attained ever-greater levels of consciousness from my own personal meditation. But if I am doing something wrong I don’t know what it is. I just know I am drained a lot. I have my ups and I have my downs, but I seem to have developed a slight, but “permanent” hindarence on myself.

    I don’t really care about John Chang’s demonstration, you have to do it on your own is what I think. There’s a lot of bumps in the road but so far there’s nothing a determined person can’t get past, and nobody can -really- help you do it is my experience. Only yourself. Though it would be nice to hear experience from a “master” who isn’t a complete fraud like 99% of them out there.

  • 63 Gabe // Nov 16, 2008

    Oh, if I could describe the “illness” that you get from improper practice, I would call it an “energy leak”, its like some of your life-force is leaking into a void of nothing-ness.

  • 64 Spartan // Nov 17, 2008

    Hello, Gabe you say that you have gotten ill from trying to teach yourself, Let me guess you have mood swings from feeling very happy to very angry ,some days you have a lot of energy and somtimes you don’t.I can tell ,you must also be in a lot of pain! the reason for these side effects are because when you do these kind of power exersices you have to build up your never fibers to handle the chi going through your body.The next thing is try a lying down meditation for about 20 min.then take a hot bath in Epsom salt to take away the soreness your having.then you should seek a better method that is easy on the body and mind.Have a good one .

    train smart!

  • 65 Raj // Nov 18, 2008

    Chris,

    I have recently discovered Neigong. After 23 years of training in external arts like Hapkido, Kempo and Okinawan Karate…etc I know that Neigong is the missing piece of the puzzle I have been searching for. I am interested in internal healing and healing others since I suffer with chronic pain myself. I live in Southeastern Virginia and hoping I can find a qualified teacher that can guide me on this path. Thank you for all your insight and any guidance you can provide.

  • 66 Thunderbird // Nov 18, 2008

    Regarding post 64,

    I don’t think minor inconveniences like soreness and energy fluctuations are any reason to stop internal training any more than a potential bodybuilder stop lifting because he feels sore and fatiqued after workouts. Its a part of the process. Unfortunatly we live in a culture than is very weak (mind and bodied) and we have this egocentric mentality that we don’t deserve anything but positive everything at all times. I say keep pluggin away since it seems like a sign of progress to me.

  • 67 Chris // Nov 18, 2008

    Raj,
    My serious advice: don’t believe everything you read on the Internet!

    Gabe and Thunderbird,
    There are two ways to learn the difference between a temporary discomfort and the onset of a disease state. The first, is to consult an expert. The second…well, that’s the hard way. Some schools avoid directed meditations, because the likelihood of achieving a net positive effect through self-guided practice is low.

  • 68 Beavis // Nov 18, 2008

    I’d like to just point out a little oddity in the above messege. You can easily find an expert in basically anything just by hopping online or picking up a phone book but you cant find an expert in any kind of qigong or neigong or meditation period. It’s not like going down the road to McLee’s FastFood Meditational.

  • 69 Raj // Nov 18, 2008

    Chris,

    Thank you. I do filter what I come across online and will wait for proper guidance before trying these excercises. Hopefully the adage will hold true that “when the student is ready, the master will appear”. Until then I will be at the ready…

  • 70 Thunderbird // Nov 18, 2008

    I only think the net positive results are slower to come, but not low as in probability. Its like successful athletes, business men, social status, intelligence etc. It is certainly easier when a path sis laid before you but there are trailblazers in the above mentioned scenarios. Some people just have ‘it’ and once they begin a quest the rest develops, whether they are solo or in a group.

  • 71 Thunderbird // Nov 18, 2008

    Without going into much detail I have been tested by inner planes beings as far as an initiation. This initiation could also have happened from some master walking around. The gods are always watching those who have the gift to walk between the worlds and when you are ready, they let you know they have been there with you!

  • 72 Beavis // Nov 18, 2008

    That’s the biggest crock of Sh&% I’ve ever heard. You arent initiated into a damn thing

  • 73 Chris // Nov 19, 2008

    You can easily find an expert in basically anything just by hopping online or picking up a phone book but you cant find an expert in any kind of qigong or neigong or meditation period. It’s not like going down the road to McLee’s FastFood Meditational.

    However difficult finding a teacher might be, mastering the lessons alone is surely harder.

    If you couldn’t afford to buy a car, would you try to build one instead? And pray the brakes work as intended? :)

  • 74 Chris // Nov 19, 2008

    I only think the net positive results are slower to come, but not low as in probability. Its like successful athletes, business men, social status, intelligence etc. It is certainly easier when a path sis laid before you but there are trailblazers in the above mentioned scenarios.

    True. In the long run, we all are successful or we are dead. Either way, our problems are solved. :)

  • 75 Thunderbird // Nov 19, 2008

    I just don’t believe in that common rhetoric about needing masters to proceed and needing them for initiation. Like the plains Indians shamans, initiation comes from the Gods in some cases.

  • 76 Butthead // Nov 20, 2008

    Indian Shamans didnt do things like Tibetans practicing Tummo either. You can initiate yourself with DMT, as you obviously do but it’s not the samething as any kind of power giving meditation. Yes you should seek a master if you wish to develop any kind of major power ie tummo or mo pai type power but if you want to feel your hand tingle then just do qigong on your own. Go buy the book Healing Power of Qi and you have years worth of practice in the book.

    Im perfectly fine with building a car on my own. All you need are tools and a manual, follow it to the letter and you have a fine running car. End of story

  • 77 Thunderbird // Nov 20, 2008

    When I was a true beginner I did not understand these concepts either, but you are comparing apples to oranges. You need to understand extenal power shamans (mediums, channelers, invokers etc) are different than internal alchemy like Chang. It is not uncommon that regardless of whether you are internal or external certain attributes and ‘gifts’ are common. In your mistake you did not find the difference. The irony is both utilize the other. Internal alchemists pull in power from the ether and trap it. External power wielders navigate the inner planes in order to find large amounts of power. Whether one is Sitting Bull, Alesiter Crowley, or a Druid, the power is still there. If you are confused ask questions since it will help you learn.

  • 78 Butthead // Nov 20, 2008

    The only confusion seems to be on your end.

  • 79 Thunderbird // Nov 21, 2008

    The strongest shamans I have ever known all seem to be native american, hands down. The rumors of shapeshifters aren’t all false.

  • 80 Butthead // Nov 22, 2008

    This site reminds me of cyberkwoon. The shits so deep I shoulve worn my wading boots. You’ve never met any shamans. Just because youve met a native american doesnt mean they are shamans LOL. Look, I know you think youve been on all kinds of spiritual planes but quit lying. The bs is so thick it’s stinking through my comp.

  • 81 Thunderbird // Nov 22, 2008

    lol

  • 82 Thunderbird // Nov 22, 2008

    Native Americans come from a strange energy and planetary system. While they suffer at adapting to the modern world the ability to access deep primordial roots becomes a strength when doing work with the spirits and healing etc

  • 83 Bijan // Nov 22, 2008

    I am very interested in any information regarding training in this style of internal martial arts or any similar styles to it.

    I take tai chi/qi gong, but my class is mostly focused on physical movements. There is little to no discussion about what is going on inside.

    Martial arts is a way of life, my way of life.

    showdang22@yahoo.ca

  • 84 Butthead // Nov 23, 2008

    I love how the infinite wisdom flows from within this site

    (hand smacks forehead)

  • 85 Chris // Nov 23, 2008

    This site reminds me of cyberkwoon.

    There certainly has been an influx of anonymous trolls here lately! Honestly, I would prefer people use their real names–as Butthead and myself have done–and will continue to lock pages if a discussion heads in the wrong direction. :)

  • 86 Martin // Dec 13, 2008

    Hello everybody,
    I have read both books by Kosta Danaos about John Chang and started to practice
    the meditation he showed in Nei Kung and I wanted a few questions of mine solved, if this is possible.
    Is this meditation enough to reach level one? Are you supposed to concentrate
    just on the area of the dantien or an what is taking place inside of it, e.g.
    heat, vibration, etc.? Is it important to feel the breath there or is your mind
    resting in the dantien enough?
    I also wanted to express my thanks to Jim for sharing a bit of his knowledge. I
    am 20 years old, practicing Kung Fu for half of this time and I am about to
    spend all my money on finding John Chang. Is it possible to visit Jim so that he
    gets to know you in order to decide if he can teach you. I would be happy to get
    some answers and I apologise for my too open questions.
    Thank you very much,
    Martin

  • 87 No-Mind // Dec 17, 2008

    Martin,

    The books written by Kosta are not instructional. What he does is give you bits and pieces but jumbles them all up so you have no clue as to what youre doing. He instructs standing meditation in NeiKung but Level One has no standing meditation AT ALL. The books are really great reading material and he has some ok theories but the books were never meant to be instructional.

  • 88 No-Mind // Dec 17, 2008

    Chris

    I come on peacefull terms.

  • 89 Martin // Dec 22, 2008

    Thanks No-Mind,
    I appreciate your answer. Kosta sais this, too, but he also sais that the attentive reader might arrange the bits and pieces correctly in order to get a hint on the bigger picture. He also makes clear that he wants the reader to start meditating and gives some instructions for this. If there wasn´t some relation to the actual training then I don´t know why he is so insisting on this. I could definitely feel the heat in the dantien he discribed on various occasions as being a characteristic of yang chi. I don´t think filling the dantien with yang chi is too hard. The difficult thing appears to be mastering the state he discribes as meditation. Is there some truth in this, No-Mind?

  • 90 No-Mind // Dec 22, 2008

    Martin,

    The mo pai method is mechanical, meaning if you simply do x y and z then it works. Kosta did not write an instructional book. You CAN get bits and pieces of the real training in the book but bits and pieces wont work. Level One IS fairly simple but if not done properly then it’s not even worth it. Done properly Level One can take 1, 5, even 10 years depending on the dedication. Improperly train and it’s for nothing.

    You dont necessarily need the sleeplike state he describes because you can use a type of visualization/meditation at first.

    Every mo pai student takes an oath. The says many things, one of which is to not train others or talk about training to others. That’s why Kosta didnt openly write the Level One or Two instructions.

  • 91 Martin // Dec 24, 2008

    Thanks again No-Mind,
    I get why there is so much secrecy about John Chang´s teachings but I do not get why he shut his school completely(from what is publically known) if it enhances human potential so much. This would mean that the school dies out if not even his students are allowed to teach. I mean would he still refuse someone who had the character, mind and body suitable to be successful in the training? And if level one is simple and its mastery dependant upon dedication why not give this piece of information to the dedicated who seek it for wholesome reasons? As far as I´ve understood there is no danger involved at level one. If Kosta´s book is not instructional at all then why does he urge the reader so much to start meditation practice?
    I would love to get a response and apologise if anything seems offending.
    Merry Christmas,
    Martin

  • 92 Martin // Dec 24, 2008

    I just reread the interview and concerning this:
    “Concerning admittance into the Mo Pai, I must always discuss every proposal with my teacher. Not everyone can be admitted. Nevertheless, anyone can contact me, and I will try to reply to everyone.”
    I would really want to contact Jim so that he can check my character, etc. . I live in Germany but I am willing to travel to wherever he lives in order to let him do this. So if you read this I would appreciate you contacting me (mai88@web.de).
    Happy holidays everybody!

  • 93 No-Mind // Dec 24, 2008

    Martin,

    Kosta wrote a book, plain and simple. He, along with the Blair brothers opened the world up to what’s possible. The school isnt shut down completely (your source is incorrect), but he hasnt accepted new students for quite sometime. He cant accept any nonchinese without running it by his spirit master either. The school will not die because he will leave it to (as of now itll be a chinese student) someone else. John can refuse anyone because he isnt obligated to teach but one student to keep the lineage alive.

    Things have changed SIGNIFICANTLY since his spirit master spoke against teaching nonchinese. Jim cannot “discuss every proposal with John” just as I cant. Things arent the same for us nonchinese. If he or I reach Level Four then we can accept students openly.

    The training is harmful for those with high blood pressure.

    The book DOES have bits and pieces in it but not the whole puzzle. You have certain hand mudras for instance depending on how you sit and he says NOTHING on those, which are important. There are certain places you should and should not meditate and he says very very little on the topic. If you are smart you can figure out where to meditate but youre clueless on the mudras still.

    John isnt free from karma yet so he HAS to pick his students wisely. John only has a handful of students right now anyway.

  • 94 Name // Dec 24, 2008

    I am here to speak with you Jim.

    http://www.myspace.com/shaggnasty

    Namaste

  • 95 Martin // Dec 25, 2008

    Of course I understand what you are saying about the difficulties for nonchinese to get in touch with this teachings but is it impossible? I mean could I get in contact with Jim or you, No-Mind, and have a more than 0 chance that master Liao accepts you learning the system? I think there are tons of people you would love to learn it just out of curiosity but there still are those who would like to pursue it as a lifelong endeavour out of honorable reasons. I am 20 years old and practice chinese martial arts for half of this time as a means of self-cultivation but John´s teaching is what I have always been looking for. I am practicing vipassana for quite some time now and started doing Kosta´s meditation several hours a day. What would you recommend someone like me who wants to take the risk of being accepted or rejected?
    I´d appreciate an answer very much, as always and thank you again for replying, No-Mind.

  • 96 No-Mind // Dec 25, 2008

    Martin,

    I’m always free to talk on this site or via email. There is a chance that you John personally accepts you as he did me. There is also a chance that he doesnt. You wont know until you try. Keep in mind the cost of flying and hotels and the fact that he may not be home at all due to his many businesses he maintains.

  • 97 Martin // Dec 26, 2008

    Hi No-Mind,
    I would appreciate you contacting me under mai88@web.de for further information on visiting John, if this is possible for you.
    Like I said I am only 20 years old so money is not what I have got most. Because of this I would like to know as precisely as possible where I can find him (like the city he lives in if possible and maybe, if you know, a time when he is not travelling, etc.). I am serious about this. I feel that if I don´t try now I will regret it until I do. I cannot even express how greatful I am for your answers so far, No-Mind. Thank you so much!
    Best wishes,
    Martin

  • 98 Yogip // Dec 28, 2008

    Hello No Mind,

    Is it true that level 1 of the mo-pai sytem is that you concentrate on the dan-tien, which is approximately 3 finger widths below the navel. How do you you klnow when you have filled this energy point?

    Regards

  • 99 No-Mind // Dec 28, 2008

    Yogip,

    When you perform Level One correctly you will, at some point, hit certain milestones that let you know about how full you are and one milestone that only happens when you are full. The dantien is about 3-4 finger widths down from your naval and is basically inline with your other two dantiens. The exact location isnt important to the practitioner however, atleast not at first.

  • 100 Yogip // Dec 29, 2008

    Yogip,

    When you perform Level One correctly you will, at some point, hit certain milestones that let you know about how full you are and one milestone that only happens when you are full. The dantien is about 3-4 finger widths down from your naval and is basically inline with your other two dantiens. The exact location isnt important to the practitioner however, atleast not at first.

    Hello No-Mind,

    So what are the milestones of concentrating on the dantien? Could you please describe these signs/symptoms? Also is it possible for you to connect/contact the divine just by concentrating on the dantien? My point of taking up this practise is that you could connect to the divine-higher self by practising this way? Would it be possible to establish a personal relationship with the divine creator god?

  • 101 No-Mind // Dec 29, 2008

    Yogip,

    The Mo Pai method is for every kind of religoin out there. At a certain point your faith my get stronger or it may change completely. Does the method PROVE any religion right or wrong? No.

    The Mo Pai sounds like it may not be what youre wanting. For starters, it can take 1 year or the rest of your life to complete Level One. Secondly, I cant speak for Jim but for myself, I’ve seen spirits more times than I care too. By see I should say sense although I have seen them with my eyes.

    The milestones will not be shared at this time.

  • 102 Raj // Dec 30, 2008

    Where is Prometheus? This is simply amazing. I am realizing more and more that this is “The Art of Vagueness”. A little tease here, a little tease there without any real tangibles. If such a way really existed to make the world a better place then the universe it seems does not plan for the world to be better. Perhaps Sifu Chang’s vision was correct in that “his” knowledge would be lost to the world and if so it would be because of those that are selfish to share the knowledge. I am happy for the ignorant. There are alternatives to the Mopai in the Tao and within for those wishing to follow.

    http://www.tienshan.net/index.html
    http://springforestqigong.com/index.htm
    http://www.doblesinstitute.com/default.php

  • 103 No-Mind // Dec 31, 2008

    Raj,

    The milestones will do no good if you never reach them. I could tell you that it’s an OBE or that it’s immense heat, etc but if you arent practicing alot then it’s pointless.

  • 104 No-Mind // Dec 31, 2008

    Raj,

    In addition, what John wants to be done with the Mo Pai isnt any of your business. Whether or not John has passed on the teaching to another student is none of your business aswell. The Freedom of Information Act doenst include John.

  • 105 Raj // Jan 1, 2009

    No Mind,

    It may seem pointless to you if the milestones will not help to a non practitioner but what would it hurt to share them? It is none of my business about what Sifu Chang does with the Mo Pai or his students. I am not questioning Sifu’s Chang’s intentions. He supposedly had a vision that this knowledge was passing from the world which may be true. Regarding Prometheus…if you are not familiar with the story then read it. That is the point here. If I was enlightened and had knowledge that could benefit mankind it would be my individual responsibility to share that knowledge. That should seem obvious. I have met a few individuals that share that vision who are quite forthcoming. Helping mankind reach an enlightened state would incur beneficial Karma. Who can argue with that? Seemed to work for Buddha, Jesus…etc. I just have a general disdain for enlightened individuals who refuse to pass along even general knowledge that could help or even give direction to where they could find it. What purpose does it serve to say I have such knowledge to a group of seekers but then say I won’t tell you anything that could help you? Those people should remain in obscurity if they have no intention of helping. The cop out that Karma will bring the teacher is mute. The gathering is already there.

  • 106 Martin // Jan 1, 2009

    I don´t think it is as simlpe as you think, Raj. Cars benefit humankind,too, but you would not want to give one to a six-year-old just because he wants it so badly. I think it´s not up to us to judge John Chang out of our understanding but it is up to him to judge whether we are ready or not. That is because his understanding is deeper, which is the reason we want to learn from him in the first place and not the other way round. Your reasoning makes sense because it is obvious and this is the reason that I am sure he is familiar with it, too. But he still HAS to have reasons stronger than what you´ve discribed to act the way he does which in itself can teach us a great deal.
    Maybe our “fault” is just not to realise this and still be arrogant enough to intend to “force” someone to show information we are simply not ready for.
    Just my opinion

  • 107 Spartan // Jan 1, 2009

    Hello,all I would just like to say that Mr John Chang has made his choice as far as the future of Mo Pai is concerned,Although Im not a student I deeply respect his choice,sometimes we grow angry because we don’t understand The choices our sifu’s make because we only concern ourselves with earthly concerns,their is much more to the puzzle than you think and their are rules that even at MR changs level that must be obeyed and could not be understood at your current levels.Here is how you get Sifu Changs or any other master for that matter ‘s attention! Develop yourself to the point where you get their attenion I clearly see that this is a test for the mopai students Who will set themselves apart from the rest of the pack,what could you show sifu Chang if he where standing in front of you now, I think that you would all be wasting his time and he knows this so he is waiting to see what you can show.Then when you have done this then all the information you seek will be made available to,and another thing we must consider is it may not be your destiny to recieve training from Sifu chang Many will be called but few will be chosen!I have shared this infomation in the hope’s that my words will be taken not in a bad way but in a way that will help us all.I have trained to the point that I get people emailing me all the time regarding training with them and their teachers are impressed with me (that’s what they say) I don’t handel praise well at all ,I just want to help out.It all boil’s down to do you have what it takes to set yourselves apart from the pack,are your current abilities enough to get Sifu chang’s attention.
    Train smart and Happy new year!

  • 108 East Meets West // Jan 1, 2009

    there is quite a lot of feisty opinions on here!
    LOL
    still see yourself as separate you do- (insert yoda voice)

    watch out. don’t lend your power out to someone just because of a video. maybe JC is real, maybe its just a clever advertising scheme. videos can be doctored, books can be exaggerated and testimony can be over hyped. who knows if any of this is real? the chinese often over exaggerate their powers to the general public in order to promote inspiration and more business! ;0) but spending ALL of your money and chasing something you do not know for sure to be true, is more dangerous than putting some solar qi in your belly!

    as for karma. if it is so, then you will run into the perfect teacher at the perfect time. the effort with be effortless. spend a good amount of time training, find a decent local teacher that wont drain your time or money, and start meditating.
    perhaps if you try hard enough, you can meet the spirit of JC or numerous other teachers through meditation. its like the internet of astral travel!

    but finger pointing and loud opinions show that you have not worked hard enough on your own qi stagnation, and that’s probably why you are not gaining ground. clear your own emotions and increase your “wiring” through consistent stance training and meditate a ton. you might find the teacher is not in some far away place, but inside your own head…

  • 109 No-Mind // Jan 1, 2009

    Raj,

    I think you dont quite understand what’s really going on. Students arent supposed to talk about the actual practice. Those who do are breaking oath. All I do is help clear the fog that’s in Kosta’s books. Also, your understanding of karma is not so great.

    Martin,

    Exactly.

    Spartin,

    Something to understand is that all methods are not created equal. It doesnt do anyone any good to train in a certain style of qigong for years and then expect to just cross over to the mo pai because youll basically be going backwards. Training beforehand in simple meditation is always a benefit to oneself no matter what. You said you werent good with taking praise but have no qualms with praising yourself on a forum lol.

    EMW,

    John is real for starters. Secondly, he doesnt ask money from anyone and he doenst expect anyone to waste the money to come looking for him just so he can turn them away. The mo pai doesnt have some funky website you can click on or a phone number to call just you can try and chat with him beforehand. A local qigong “master” WILL take your money, happily, they are doing you a service in teaching you the way ( or so you hope). John will not and has never taken money for healing or teaching. Kosta on the otherhand has obviously taken money for his book and his teaching, which is against oath but whatever. It doenst hurt at all to begin some simple sitting meditation but actually attempting some sort of circulation could result in some bad habits and also a bit harmful. One of the reasons mo pai is so effective is that Level One is sitting meditation with the exercise being accumulation, not circulation.

    May 2009 be a great and prosperous year for all

  • 110 Spartan // Jan 1, 2009

    Hello, east meets west,I thank you for your words!I dont mean to sound angry or anything like that .You are right about karma and getting the right teacher at the right time I just found it funny that people talk about exotic terms But I just want to know if they can do anything other than meditate.I can feel JC ‘s chi and he is no joke and I can barely feel anything from the people who post things hear,that’s not to say that they can’t astro project or do other things .Im saying that It will take them a very long time to build up any significant chi,and as you build up your chi pressure then you will become more sensitive to other peoples chi and you will see things in a new way Good luck!

    Train smart

  • 111 Raj // Jan 1, 2009

    Folks,

    I am not judging or have any problems with Sifu Changs decision. His conduct is that of a Master and one of spritual maturity. He made a decision which is fine and stands by it by not getting involved. He is not the one posting on the boards providing just bits and pieces of a puzzle that does not fit. That is the act of someone perhaps who does not know enough to provide substantial advice. I have read Kosta’s books and perhaps he is the Prometheus of the day. But think about it. Are you really helping? If you have nothing that is going to help then don’t even dangle the carrot. Like I was saying there are other schools that are forthcoming with knowledge even with the journey to Daoist Immortality.

  • 112 No-Mind // Jan 1, 2009

    Raj,

    I’m not dangling any carrot. Kosta does so with his book, making people think they can do Level One by just reading it. The book contains everything you could ever want to know about Level One except the proper hand mudra for full lotus, half-lotus or cross legged. All I’ve ever done was clear up what is true and what is false in Kosta’s book. I’ve never said that I will teach anyone any level. What I CAN do is help people realize how to do Level One with what’s already in the book. The hand mudra is going to take me a minute to think about how to divulge it without breaking any actual oath.

  • 113 Chris // Jan 1, 2009

    Spartan and others,
    Please do not take these blog posts as the opening of a “test” to see who is worthy of joining the Mo-Pai. That was not my intention. Raj is correct to note that there are many other schools one may join, and nobody should assume that the most exclusive or popular is the best.

  • 114 Spartan // Jan 1, 2009

    Hello all,I am not mad at any one,to be honest Im proud of any one who seeks to better themselves and the world through these practices ,I think that we should share our experiances so that we can all take a step forward together,and if the method you practice forbids you talking about certain things within your method then so be it,But I will be glad to share what I know.GOOD LUCK HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! and may all of you reach your goals.

  • 115 xy&z // Jan 4, 2009

    dpumpernickels@yahoo.com

    I teach Level One

  • 116 Martin // Jan 5, 2009

    Hi xy&z ,
    could you be more specific about this?

  • 117 zy&x // Jan 5, 2009

    More specific how ?? lol I pretty much nailed it on the head

  • 118 Brandon Pearson // Jan 7, 2009

    Jim.
    I have heard that you have violated the wishes of your master and have gone and opened up your own school of Mo Pai when you yourself has not even made it passed level 4

    if i am correct how could you disrespect one to teach you such things he probably disobeyed the strict taboo’s of his sect and this is how you repay him..
    if i am correct about my accusations this is a gross display of disrespect and Sifu Chang deserves much much more

  • 119 No-Mind // Jan 8, 2009

    Brandon,

    Are you not being disrespectful by saying such things? If you have never met Sifu then how do you know what he deserves? For anyone whose not met him he could have put on a mere show by staging the videos. Dont get me wrong, Sifu does deserve respect, however, you have not met him. Just because someone can do pyrogenesis and the sorts does not mean that they are not human and have flaws. This does not mean that they are above being hurtful and disrespectful themselves.

    His wishes? What do you know of his wishes? You’ve heard? Heard from who?

  • 120 Raj // Jan 8, 2009

    Brandon,

    “Prometheus is one of the Titans from Greek mythology. He helped create (and then befriend) mankind. He gave humans the gift of fire even though he knew Zeus would not approve and suffered punishment for it. This punishment did not stop him from helping mankind even further with all sorts of other knowledge. ”

    Pardon my interjecting but from what I have read in Kosta’s books it seemed like Sifu Chang expressed a desire to pass his knowledge along. He did in fact himself break his own code after extended meditation in the jungle when he felt that this gift of knowledge was passing from the world by teaching westerners and providing demonstrations. He also felt that this knowledge was going west.
    Perhaps he hoped within that those he taugt could do what he himself could not do or sanction because of his own oath and reminder from his master. He was the first after all to be “Prometheus”.

    Who would be the one to chastise Jim? You or Sifu Chang? Who is the master?

  • 121 No-Mind // Jan 8, 2009

    Raj,

    Why do you insist on using Prometheus? You seem to think you know so much about John and his visions but if John really wanted what that book said he wanted then why would he allow his spirit master to control what he does?? After all, John was the lineage holder NOT his spirit master. Another thing, what makes you think you should get this training??? Go look for a master, maybe youll find one.

  • 122 Raj // Jan 8, 2009

    No Mind,

    I do not bear you or the Mopai any malice.
    I am just being “Devils Advocate”. I felt that Brandon was unecessarily chastising Jim. And yes perhaps I am reading too much into Kosta’s book but so far that is the majority of the information I have read regarding Sifu Chang and I am completely unaware as to how John and his spirit master inter-react.
    As for Prometheus…I find that story appropriate for the day. We need a Prometheus to come forward. I myself am seeking a Master but maybe this training is not for me. I am sure if it is not the training itself would be a good filter to decide as I am sure it requries some committment, sacrifice and discipline. I still do hope to find a master regardless and practice.

  • 123 No-Mind // Jan 8, 2009

    Raj,

    I completely agree with you. Brandon has no business speaking down to Jim or any member of the mo pai, whether ex or current. No one can speak for John but John.

  • 124 Johnson B. // Jan 8, 2009

    As I looked over many sites (this, taobums, and many others), I found many other Mopai students took offense in Jim teaching the Mopai method to other people. John Chang wanted to teach others and open the Mopai to others, but, something occured a few years back when his master, or a master who previously held the lineage before, came and reprimanded John Chang for breaking his oath to his master by teaching the Mopai method to foreigners (non-chinese). After John Chang closed the Mopai to foreigners, he forbade the “Western” students from teaching the Mopai method to anyone else. He used to allow them to teach the 1st level meditation since it’s not harmful and is good for your health. However, after closing the doors, he forbade any teachings to non-Chinese.

    There were other Mopai students who claimed that Jim is not of level 3 and he certainly is not the highest level (or second highest) student of Mopai. He did not even pass level 2. He claimed to have passed level 2 and is level 3 but there was a Mopai student who said that Jim mistakenly thought one of the exercises he did was for one level (which did not count as a level). Even someone close to John Chang claimed that John Chang himself said none of the Western students ever passed level 2.

    As to Jim opening up his own Mopai school is indeed a disrespect to John Chang. How can he teach a school when he himself is not a master of it.

    No-Mind, I agree with you that only John Chang can speak for John Chang, but I highly doubt that he will go online and answer any questions we have. I also feel that if someone is doing something wrong, then, it is up to us to speak up. Even though I am not a student of Mopai, but there are a number of students of Mopai that disagree with Jim, and do not think highly of him.

  • 125 Brandon Pearson // Jan 9, 2009

    Please forgive me for i meant no disrespect.
    i only said these things in regards to Sifu Chang for i thought he was being disrespected
    how i come to learn that he has opened his own school of Mo-pai came from a person speaking on these forums i will keep his name private for his convenience.
    i did not wish to speak for John either.

    i only said what i said because i am slightly disturbed by Jim for his actions.
    i spoke to him on his youtube account and over email
    you said he could teach me but he would CHARGE ME a sum of $300+ dollars.
    i think chargeing someone to learn these things is wrong.
    from what i have read in kostas books i believe Chang thinks it wrong as well.

  • 126 No-Mind // Jan 9, 2009

    Sifu is the only person who doesnt charge. Kosta charged. Andreas charged. Heck, Kosta even made money off of 2 books. It is in your own opinion that you believe it is wrong to charge but do your school teachers get paid? Is it wrong for them to accept money? What about doctors? Is it wrong that they get paid aswell? In the world we live today, money is very important to survival.

  • 127 Raj // Jan 9, 2009

    Brandon,

    If you could learn Neikung for 300 dollars then that would be a great bargain. The cost to attend just a seminar is easily triple that plus travel costs. If Jim offered to train you for 300 at least to whatever level he is and you thought that was too much perhaps you are not ready for the true cost of the training. Maybe consider that the first test of your initiation.. your leap of faith. Consider traveling to find John Chang or some other master and coming up empty. This has happened before.

    I wonder how much Kosta made on those books. Alot more than 300 I think.
    Just food for thought…you probably just blew an opportunity.

  • 128 No-Mind // Jan 10, 2009

    Johnson,

    While I know you “mean” well, I sincerely doubt you know any mo pai students

  • 129 Johnson B. // Jan 10, 2009

    No Mind,

    Though I am not affiliated with Mopai, I have been in touch with them. Everything that I’ve written, I got those information from a lot of online postings I read, which were written by many Mopai students (Andreas, Thunderindo to name a few). I have been interested in John Chang and the Mopai since a few years ago. I have been following a lot of threads about John Chang and Mopai. If you have been following the threads since cyberkwoon, wong kit, tao bums, and many others, you will see the information I’ve mentioned.

    There was even a student who mentioned that Jim can only teach you the first level, since only John Chang himself (and no one else) can tell you if you have passed the first level. If you tried the 2nd level without passing level 1, then you might get hurt. The standing exercise that Jim might teach you is not even one of the levels.

    I do want to learn the Mopai method, but since the school is closed, I have to respect the decision. It is very inappropriate to teach or learn this method without the consent of John Chang. It doesn’t matter that you have spent thousands of dollars and a lot of your time learing from John Chang, if he forbids you to teach then you have to respect it. To do otherwise is pure disrespect. If John Chang himself is not allowed to teach, who are you (Jim or anyone else) to go against the Mopai rule.

    I think the important lesson from this is John Chang has shown us what human beings are capable of. This allows us to venture out from our own limitation, and know that something like this is possible. Though not from John Chang’s teachings, or the Mopai methods, but I’m sure there are other Neigong school out there where we can learn this.

    Forgive me if this might offend someone. I mean no harm.

  • 130 No-Mind // Jan 10, 2009

    The important lesson is that we arent in highschool so there’s no need for an episode of gossip girls. How do you know what Jim teachs? Have you actually talked to Jim? Andreas…make a longer story short by saying there’s no need to listen to a single thing he says. I’m glad that you have “first hand” information from a forum..That’s practically like youve been there yourself. Come on…just stop JOHNSON. No need for this to continue

  • 131 Brandon Pearson // Jan 10, 2009

    please understand my hesitation to pay you the initiation money
    i mean come on try to imagine this from my point of view.
    i do not know any of you well..
    for all i know you could be frauds trying to get my money.. its extremely common over the internet.
    i want to believe you.. i believe there is a reason i want to learn these things the same reason i have come across this website and come across you wonderful people
    but i just don’t wanna be cheated out of my money only to find that you are not who you say at all and i get nothing out of this.
    if i Must pay something.. id rather do it in person..
    when i travel to Indonesia i will seek you out..

  • 132 No-Mind // Jan 10, 2009

    To my knowledge, neither Jim nor myself are in Indonesia.

  • 133 Raj // Jan 10, 2009

    Brandon,

    Skepticsm is good and healthy but if you had any doubt that it was Jim you were emailing because you suspected it could have been a fraud, phony or otherwise perhaps you should not have blasted Jim publicly.
    I understand your dilemna but maybe a little discretion next time would be appropriate.

  • 134 yogip // Jan 11, 2009

    Chris,
    close this thread down, it’s getting plain annoying

    [Anyone who wishes to discuss site moderation should contact me privately. No need to stick around if you are annoyed. Note there is a new forum where you may post discussion topics of your own choosing. --Chris]

  • 135 Brandon Pearson // Jan 11, 2009

    No.
    please dont close this thread down its one of the last ones regarding Mo-pai or john chang..
    please keep it open i enjoy our conversations

  • 136 No-Mind // Jan 12, 2009

    Johnson,

    Have you seen the video of Jim? That’s proof that he’s PAST level “2″.

  • 137 TongKosong // Jan 12, 2009

    No-Mind,

    If you do know the testing method of MoPai, then you are absolutely wrong about your claim. The video PROVES that Jim has not pass level 2. Only students of Mopai know about this fact. If Jim tells you otherwise, then he is deluding you.

  • 138 No-Mind // Jan 13, 2009

    Oh here we go….AGAIN

  • 139 TongKosong // Jan 13, 2009

    No-Mind,

    You made an erroneous claim. I’m just stating the fact. That is all.

  • Healing MindN Power Circle » Blog Archive » Video: Super Human Morals of a Qigong Master // Sep 20, 2008

    [...] Jim McMillan, who identifies himself as a longtime disciple of John Chang, has graciously agreed to share a few of his experiences with Martial Development readers… (continued at Return of the Jedi: Five Questions with a Neigong Expert) [...]

  • Carnival of Self-Mastery - September 24, 2008 // Sep 24, 2008

    [...] presents Return of the Jedi: Five Questions with a Neigong Expert posted at Martial Development, saying, "The esoteric Eastern school known as Mo-Pai has been [...]

  • Our Best Version | Blog Carnival: 10 Posts about Realizing Your Potential - October 2008 // Oct 15, 2008

    [...] presents Return of the Jedi: Five Questions with a Neigong Expert posted at Martial Development, saying, “The esoteric Eastern school known as Mo-Pai has been [...]

  • Best of New Age, Yoga & Meditation Articles & Blogs // Oct 20, 2008

    [...] presents Return of the Jedi: Five Questions with a Neigong Expert posted at Martial Development, saying, "Read this interview with a member of [...]

  • Our Top Martial Arts Blogs - The Year in Review // Jan 16, 2009

    [...] Five Questions With a Nei Kung Expert My thanks to the Mo-Pai disciples who collaborated with me on publishing this interview. [...]

Comments on this page are closed. You may still comment in the forums.