This is a distillation of previous interviews with Master Wang. Original, unedited translations are available at Formosa Neijia (in part) or from the Yiquan eBookstore (in full).
Having traveled across China, I know that Taijiquan has the most practitioners of any martial art. Upon hearing that this boxing method was handed down from Zhang Sanfeng, I despised him for a long time.
Later on, I read the collected edition of Zhang Sanfeng’s teachings, and realized that he had progressed deeply into the great Tao—and I came to believe that Taiji was not handed down from him at all! Actually, it doesn’t matter; even if one is a descendant of Sanfeng, he is not worthy to talk about this method without first gaining its essence.
Taijiquan is far from the art of actual combat; they have nothing in common with each other.
Bad for Health, Worthless in Combat
As masters of the original Taijiquan, I should recommend the Yang brothers Shouhou and Chengfu. They are my friends, and I know that their Taiji has some knowledge of mechanics. But out of one hundred students, not even one gains its essence…and even then, it is still one-sided, because the skills of intuitive perception died out a long time ago. Originally, Taiji consisted of three fists, Wang Zongyue changed it into thirteen postures, and it was later embellished into as much as one hundred and fifty postures. This is the cause of the distortion.
Sticking to mechanical movements, seeking beautiful postures and mistaking it for the glory of martial arts…that is terrible. Such a person cannot comprehend boxing for life. If a man of insight sees such a performance, he will feel sick for ten days.
As a means of health preservation, Taijiquan restrains the spirit, and brings discomfort to its practitioner. For combat, it harms the practitioner’s limbs and trunk, and causes a useful body to become a mechanical and stiff thing…it’s nothing more than a waste of time.
As for the training method—a punch with the fist here, a slap with the palm there, a kick to the left, and another one to the right—it is pitiful and laughable.
As for dealing with an enemy in a fight: please do not even consider it. So ruined is this boxing that it has become useless. There are many more things, but I feel embarrassed to say them.
The Essence of Combat Science
Among the world’s countless martial artists, those who know the essence of combat science are as rare as a unicorn’s horn.
The correctness of a martial art cannot be judged merely by victory or defeat. If one does not thereby achieve comfort, gain strength, and enhance their quality of life, then it cannot be called a martial art.
The value of combat science is not merely in attainment of relaxation and other trifling achievements. Combat science is persistent learning…and it cannot be completed in a very short time. This is why Zhuangzi said, “Martial arts do indeed enter the Tao.”
I don’t understand why other boxers avoid contacting me; I have always respected martial morals. I really hope that fellow martial artists will question me; and if anyone can instruct me, I will sweep the pathway to welcome him.
What questions do you have for this “Master Wang”? Do you agree or disagree with his statements?
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28 responses so far ↓
1
Dojo Rat
// May 8, 2008
My experiance is that I have met so,so many Taiji form students that have no clue about what they are doing. Many were trained in form by a renound Chinese master I have met. I mean clueless.
I also understand that all of the best Tai Chi Chuan instructors in old days also had experiance in Shaolin or other hard styles.
I think that broad study allows to pick up the details found in internal styles and how practical application really works.
D.R.
2
Formosa Neijia
// May 8, 2008
What struck me was that Wang was criticizing taiji as being defective regardless of who was teaching it. He said the forms AND the way they were done were both detrimental. In fact, he basically said everything about taijiquan, period, was wrong.
It read like some screed on bullshido. I dismissed the entire thing. Rubbish.
3
Faik
// May 9, 2008
Well, the old man must have been right. He really wanted to change the way of thinking many still nowadays have. BTW, that Yiquan e-book is translated by my Yiquan teacher from Finland.
4
rudra
// May 16, 2008
You seem to have no idea about Tai Chi. Go meet Master Waysun Liao of Oak park, IL if you want a demonstration of the power of Tai Chi.
5
Faik
// May 21, 2008
According to Master Liao, the great power of T’ai Chi cannot be realized without knowing its inner meaning…” The texts are introduced by three chapters explaining how to increase inner energy “(ch’i), “transform it into inner power “(jing), “and project this inner power outward to repel an opponent without physical contact. ..
What a bull!! Rudra get a life and wake up a little!!
6
Chris
// May 22, 2008
Faik, what source are you quoting?
7
Faik
// May 23, 2008
I’ve found that from the description of Liaos book ” T’ai Chi Classics (Shambhala Classics) ” on the book cover. Btw, I have great thoughts about tai-chi and Ch’eng Man Ch’ing style. That because it’s very applicable and not delusional as many other styles of tai-chi. But that quote is quite too much for me to apprehend.
8
orb
// Jun 2, 2008
Finally some indications that people start waking up. Taiji can’t be used in combat ever. There’s also a very easy way to test yourself for free! Get in a real fight. Just be ready to run…don’t get killed.
Thx Master Wang – u r wise.
9
Chris
// Jun 2, 2008
Faik, I wouldn’t be surprised if the cover text was written by its publisher. I actually have a copy of the book, and this is what Liao himself wrote inside:
I believe this paragraph is the only discussion of “empty force” in the entire book.
10
Sat
// Jun 13, 2008
I’ve been practicing Chen Style Tai Chi for some time now, and I can tell you that the principle, the mechanics and the theory behind Tai Chi is far from being bull shit.
The wide difference in opinion arises mainly due to the fact that it is radically different from other forms of martial arts, where the emphasis is on hard training, kicks, blocks, punches, etc and also on the techniques.
Tai Chi on the other hand, views all attacks simply as a flow of energy. Now, how do you intercept that energy? Do you stop it with an equal amount of force? Do you evade and simply let the energy run its course and exhaust itself? Do you channelize it in such a way that the attacker loses balance or ends up hurting himself? This is where Tai Chi differs from other arts.
When an attack happens, you don’t need the same aggression of the attacker to stop it. Neither the aggression, nor the force. Tai Chi emphasizes on soft energy. Now most people seem to confuse soft with weak, which is not true. Soft means less physical strength and more of a flow. It means the mind does not lose its tranquility. It means that your strike is more of a proper channelizing of your energy which penetrates into your opponent, than a hard strike which hurts on the surface.
Do you understand it? Perhaps not. And most people don’t. Not because the theory is flawed, but because it takes time. A lot more time than a hard martial art like Karate, Wusu or Judo. It is more difficult because the practitioner cannot immediately gauge his prowess like in other arts where he can show off a well practiced kick.
Tai Chi involves a deep calming of your mind, a sound understanding of your balance and centre of gravity, a natural softening of your movements which make your punch or strike more flowing than a hard muscle filled exercise. It’s like a Tiger Woods teeing off. There’s very little force or strength. But there’s a beautiful, uninterrupted flow. There’s optimum use of body mechanics. Thats what Tai Chi is about, and it takes years to master.
And one final word: Tai Chi isn’t separate from every other art. The principles of Tai Chi can be applied to any activity, any sport and any martial art. And thats also the reason you will find that most authoritative practitioners of Tai Chi usually have a prior martial arts experience of over 10 years.
Tai Chi isn’t crap; the understanding that people have about it is.
11
Deyan
// Aug 1, 2008
A principle in Tai Chi: “Use your mind, not strength” (If I remember it correctly in Chinese: “Pyong yi, pu pyong li”
Yang Luchan was appointed to teach the Imperial Guard in Beijing – who are you to say “Taijiquan Sucks”? He fought many times with masters in China and was never defeated. That’s why he was called Luchan (The Invinsible).
I practice Yang style Tai Chi, and my source is the most genuine there is – Master Yang Jun, 6-th generation of the Yang family. Tai Chi is both an effective defence method and useful for your health. How many martial arts there are which old people can practice? It literary prolongs life! Can you see and old grandma doing Karate? I don’t think so. But you can see 70-year old people with black hair and soft skin doing Tai Chi everywhere in China.
Quote: “Originally, Taiji consisted of three fists, Wang Zongyue changed it into thirteen postures, and it was later embellished into as much as one hundred and fifty postures.” This is bullshit. Tai Chi has 13 postures. 150 is ridiculous.
12
Karate_and_Taiji_student
// Aug 1, 2008
I am always a little – actually, a lot – skeptical if someone claims “Martial Art X is better than Martial Art Y”. Usually, what they are saying is “I practice Martial Art X (and I have never practiced Y seriously)”.
Beyond that, absolute statements about any martial art are always very questionable – so much depends on the reasons why people practice in the first place. I wonder if someone who claims “Taiji is bad, because it looks good without being good for fighting” would despise Belly Dancing for the same reason. If he does not, how come he criticises students of Taiji in the first place? Can he know for sure that there is not a single student who learns it simply because it looks good? If he doesn’t know that for sure, then such an absolute statement is at the very least patronizing and presumptuous.
I don’t mean to say that Taiji “just looks good”. I just wanted to point out that students are in it for different reasons. You probably won’t ask a 70-year old to start practicing 100 knuckle-push ups so that he can hit really hard and compete in an MMA competition. So before even starting to make recommendations of teachers or styles, a student should find out what he is looking for. Any good teacher respects that. Bad teachers don’t.
So I wondered who this “Master Wang” is to begin with. There is limited material on the web, but from what I have read so far I tend to believe that what he teaches seems to be about standing meditations. So that is more “effective” for health and for fighting? Yeah, right. (Maybe there is more to it, but given his moronic statements from before I don’t care to find out more.)
It is quite annoying that so many fakes open their business these days. Frank Dux got a movie about his alleged legendary victory. There are people teaching how to knock out others with a kiai alone. And he we have a guy calling himself “Master” and teaches standing meditation.
It isn’t easy finding reputable teachers these days with so many frauds and fakes around. Admittedly, finding good teachers is difficult. But recognizing certain types of bad ones is easy – just avoid everybody who says “System X sucks” (without even asking what a student is seeking) and who claims to have superior, secret knowledge that other teachers don’t have.
13
UGK
// Jan 16, 2009
Silly article,
You dont throw the baby out with the bath water. Tai Chi suffers from alot of fake masters and students who never really grasp the real meaning of its ‘softness’.
But it is a lethal art form when developed correctly.
It is very similar to an ancient martial art in India called Varmam. Varmam utilises the ‘softness’ philosophy and utilises nerve damaging techniques. But in the past some students turned bad and abused its powers. After that the masters became so secretive that they rarely teach anyone and deliberately avoid teaching the lethal techniques except to the most spiritually evolved and disciplined people. And it takes too long for most modern fast paced people to learn.
Tai Chi may have a similar situation to this. You may not see masters like Chang Sanfeng, Yang Lu chan etc these days because nobody is willing to endure the deep focus and discipline required to learn it.
14
UGK
// Jan 16, 2009
Also,
NEVER dismiss the supernatural powers that real masters have. There is far more going on in this universe than the arrogant scientist thinks. I have personally witnessed what Chi (prana) can do. It is not a myth. It is a real power which can be used to do some shocking things!
15
joshuahyoung
// Feb 27, 2009
I enjoyed this article.
It inadvertently addresses changes in the teaching methods of taijichuan that took place around a hundred years ago that have failed to live up to the result of previous training methods.
I am reminded however that our progress and skill is not a sign of the veracity or prowess of a martial art so much as a sign of how we have worked and applied ourselves to it. Judge the effort, not the art and we can then transcend the petty opinion based consensus that has in reality; no bearing upon martial reality.
16
Gir001
// Oct 16, 2009
Karate_and_Taiji_student, I agree with you. Personally I believe that for all the mind sets out there you’ll find a martial art to fit that mind set. And if you don’t, then an art will be made to accomodate that way of thinking. that’s y there r so many martial arts. However that’s just my theory. (forgive my spelling, left that back in highschool).
17
Ma Fu-Chen
// Oct 17, 2009
Who is Master Wang? I can not believe a true master would place himself in such a position. I am not a Master, but have practiced Tai Chi for over 30 years and would be willing to challenge Master Wang to full contact combat with last man standing as winner.
18
Gir001
// Oct 22, 2009
Hey Ma Fu-chen I was wondering what style of taiji you studied and have you studied more than one, I just wanted your opinion cause “thank my lucky stars” I haven’t been in a life threatening situation yet to test my metal as such but which would you consider as being most practical.
19
Snakeyfistfighter
// Nov 22, 2009
For exercise I prefer Tai Chi because it saves me from falling on ice, has kept numerous ruffians from laying on hands in addition to having saved me in my entire life from back injury and keeping carpal tunnel away. For defeating foes in mortal combat, the way of the gun is best. I favor the Mossberg and challenge any hand-to-hand fighter in the world.
20
Rob
// Mar 20, 2010
@snakeyfistfighter … thanks for the lies. I doubt you have ever faced any “ruffian” or you would’ve gotten your ass kicked using your cult brainwashed slow new age bs. Real people don’t hold back and play nice like your cult. As for your gun, yeah that’s nice when you do have a gun, but unfortunately it’s not attached to your body and you can’t take it everywhere.
Why waste time claiming you can use Tai Chi in unarmed combat, if you’re gonna deflect into armed combat. That’s nice a gun can beat an unarmed guy, big deal … there’s nothing saying the other guy can’t have a gun too, and if neither of you do, your Tai Chi gets your ass kicked.
Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Boxing and wrestling work. Of course that kind of thing actually hurts to learn and is too real “fighting” for most people who just want a fake badass feeling.
21
B.BarNavi
// Apr 17, 2010
Snakey never mentioned anything about a cult. In your effort to bash an art you know absolutely jack about, you make stuff up out of thin air while claiming the other is lying.
The POINT of slow Tai Chi forms is that the coordination (breathing, hand movement, and center of gravity) is perfected to a degree that when if comes time to fight, everything comes together in a snap movement.
The core of Tai Chi is strong root and balance. This fact alone make Tai Chi a favorite form of practice for Shuaijiao practitioners. Don’t believe me? Look up YouTube for a list of Tai Chi masters in actual fights.
Many of the redirection moves in Tai Chi show up in Aikido and Jujutsu, and subsequently Judo. Is the latter a “pussy martial art”?
Punching and kicking is NOT always the solution.
22
B.BarNavi
// Apr 17, 2010
Just what does this so-called Master Wang actually do, anyway? Xingyi? Wing Chun? Or just another generic external martial art? What does he know that makes him think he can judge a firmly established art to be inferior?
23
B.BarNavi
// Apr 17, 2010
If my research is correct… I think this is the one and only founder of Yiquan… who himself was a Xingyi practitioner. And he’s been dead for ages, so it’s not he “says”, but rather “said”.
OK, so apparently deriving from his own knowledge of Neijia, he has deemed orthodox Tai Chi to be outmoded at best and dangerously limited at worst. He was also apparently personally acquainted with the Yang grandmasters.
Now, I’m puzzled at his characterization of Tai Chi as “mechanical”, when I have seen it to be nothing more than fluid and (yes) natural. Certainly more than Wang’s prized Xingyi – now THAT’S a mechanical (dare I say, robotic) martial art!
I might agree with him in criticizing the use of the taolu/kata/form as a manner of training. That seems to gotten over everyone’s heads here in the comments (including my own).
I myself am not familiar with Yiquan, but it appears that Wang decided to dispense with taolu altogether, and instead decided to focus on sparring form, akin to Western boxing.
Consensus? I think that Wang was just trying to promote his own art, and in the process disrespectfully pooh-pooh’d other arts. If he believed that his training method was more practical and superior, and that orthodox Chinese MA practice was to be thrown by the wayside, then that’s a perfectly valid opinion to have for himself. (Perhaps it wasn’t as malicious as it was framed here.) But then he couldn’t bash those arts with such vitriol and still claim he had wude.
24
Russell
// May 3, 2010
The issue is rarely the art. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that any art can be highly effective if trained in properly. That said I have to agree that most Tai Chi practitioners these days have a limited, at best, understanding of how to fight with their art of choice. That same statement applies to most karatekas, tae kwon do stylists, etc. It’s becoming rare that a martial artist of any style becomes an exceptionally talented fighter.
25
Steve H
// Jul 6, 2011
It is obvious from some comments that Grand Master Wang Xiang Zhai is unknown to the writer. Born in 1885, he studied hsingi with Guo Yun Sin then later travelled China, studying with the great masters of the day. In the 1920s he became critical of the decline in the country’s martial arts. He developed da cheng chuan “Great Accomplishment” and issued a standing challenge to martial artists to best him. This was never taken up. He died circa 1963 but the lineage lives on with his students
26
Sean M
// Jan 6, 2012
There are indeed countless taijiquan practitioners who do not have the essence of taijiquan, however there are also several who do have it…
You can judge a style of taijiquan or other martial art in various ways depending on what one wants to gain from it, but various things can be attained from various styles of martial art. Different styles have different benefits…
However some taijiquan styles are useless and sometimes harmful, but you cannot judge all styles of taijiquan as false only because some styles are false or harmful.
Martial arts are not always primarily for combat efficiency, some are art forms for cultivation on various levels, body, mind, internal energy, spirit etc… Other martial arts are for combat efficiency or sport…
Taijiquan can be quite good in combat when practiced by a master, but would a master of something more straightforward such as mixed martial arts or jeet kune do be more efficient if mastered for the sake of combat? I cannot say, for I am far from being a master of any martial art…
27
Disappointed practitioner
// Jun 8, 2012
I studied taiji and qigong for 10 years and I am sorry to say that I do not believe it be a martial art at all. Yes I learned a bunch of forms, a few applications, and sensitivity exercises but after all that it became clear that it is nothing more than empty promises (no real combat ) , hearsay, and a lot of cognitive biasing. As soon as you as you show that learning the forms with fluidity is a simple task, and pushing hands does not frustrate you, the “masters” do not want you in their class. They really just want students are willing to believe anything they say, dutifully repeat it while teaching the newcomers, and pretend that their training methods actually work.
I took workshops with the grandmasters and did not find that they added to my understanding. They would adjust a hand position here or there but nothing meaningful.
What they are good at is finding were you would be most uncomfortable. If you are used to training low, they will raise your stance. If you are used to training high, the will lower your stance etc. This kind of training does indeed have some neromuscular advanges as does any kind of muscle confusion but as soon as you show that you’re used to it, they get frustrated.
My experience is that the better you get at “playing by their rules” but not falling for their bullshit the quicker they want you out of their class.
Of course I am one of the students that was told (after 10 years of practice) that everyone else just needs practice, I was “incapable of learning.”
If figure that, if after 10 years of memorizing forms and doing push hands, I have not learned how defend against an opponent, I have not learned a martial art. I have learned a dance.
But hey, what can I say, I’m “incapable of learning.”
Oh well I really enjoyed learning all the forms and playing push hands but I am not the kind of person that lies so I can’t pretend that it is form of self defense
28
JohnW.
// May 9, 2013
I’m laughing at this article as I can’t believe it’s another dumb article downing Taijiquan. Let me say this to some of you who may or may not be familiar with the Taoist Cosmology. What comes first is the Tao that is complete emptiness or the great void in which everything that is something began. In religion that is said to be God as the Creator of all things is nameless, formless and beyond human perception. The second stage is the Taiji which is Yang and Yin. If there’s nothing then something then something created also creates it’s opposite thus Yin the mother, feminine principle first and then Yang the father also son. All things can have opposite as hot has cold and light has dark and hard has soft. The third stage is the 5 elements of Water, Wood, Earth, Fire and Metal which all things in the entire universe consist of forms of these five states. I will skip the explaination here and proceed to the next stage. The fourth stage is the 10 animals because all life on Earth can be found to be based upon 10 animal types of DNA patterns.
Now you say what does all of this have to do with Martial Arts? I will tell you please keep reading and have an open mind as this doesn’t go over easy with worldly minds who have very little patience for the spiritual aspects of the Martial Arts. Taijiquan such as Chen, Yang and Wudang are all based upon Long fist fighting styles. This can be proven but I won’t waste your time as that’s not my point. Do other styles of Martial Arts have Taiji in them? That is the question the answer is Yes they do. Taiji is not an martial art Taiji is a concept that can be utilized to perfect a Martial Art. Since human beings evolved from animals, yes the 10 animals then all martial arts are animal movements whether they be boxing, jujitsu, silat, long fist, kung fu or any combat art period. Taiji is higher in the cosmology rank than the 10 animals and that is why any art that utilizes the concept of Taiji to perfect it’s movements and balance it’s called Taijiquan which quan simply means fist or fighting with fist.
So imagine with me now because this is getting into the realm of what the great masters spoke of in the holy text. Does anyone here have experience with fighting? All fighters know you don’t need a 1000 moves to win a fight. Most fighters use a few moves which they have perfected the balance, timing, distance and dynamics of those moves to defeat opponents. So Taiji started off as this article says with 3 moves then 13 then 108 and never in a fight will anyone use 108 moves to win. Never in a lifetime of fighting will you need that many moves to win even if you are a champion fighter and fight lots of opponents or military soldier or law enforcer will you ever use more than a few moves.
There you have it all wrapped up in one nice neat package. So begin to now practice your art with by slowly adding the principles of Taiji to your art. Thereby as time progresses you will improve and then you will see why Taijiquan is the ultimate fist. Everyone starts off hard using more muscle than needed to win but every good fighter starts to learn to use leverage, slight redirection and defection of attacks to overcome oppponents. This is soft skill and sometimes we need to start hard and get some fighting experience before we understand how a feather can move a 1000 pounds. Or how to win is to lose or to lose is to win.
For all of you thinking Taijiquan is weak you need to look at Master’s Wong’s videos who resides Sulkfolk, U.K. Master Wong using Taiji superbly as he incorporates Wing Chun, Jeet Kune Do and traditonal Chinese Martial Arts into his Taijiquan. Only some expert fighters can percieve how he does that. To those of you still learning don’t be persuaded into a close mind and keep practicing and most important never stop learning.
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