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	<title>Comments on: Transcending Subjective Reality</title>
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	<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/</link>
	<description>Martial arts for personal development</description>
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		<title>By: Julius The Jules</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-14512</link>
		<dc:creator>Julius The Jules</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 23:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-14512</guid>
		<description>When one tries to understand reality, they should pay attention to their nighttime dreams.  Many people just dismiss their dreams as random little projections, but in my own honest opinion our dreams give us an understanding of our true reality.  Only when you understand how your dreams work will you understand how reality truly works.

In the infinite words of Albert Einstein, “Reality is merely an illusion, although a very persistent one”.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When one tries to understand reality, they should pay attention to their nighttime dreams.  Many people just dismiss their dreams as random little projections, but in my own honest opinion our dreams give us an understanding of our true reality.  Only when you understand how your dreams work will you understand how reality truly works.</p>
<p>In the infinite words of Albert Einstein, “Reality is merely an illusion, although a very persistent one”.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13912</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13912</guid>
		<description>After taking a closer look at Steve&#039;s page I would say that the snippet you included above does not reveal the depth and scope of the problem.

Steve&#039;s philosophy reminds me of a dog chasing its tail.  In it he recommends using it as a method for personal attainment.  If nothing is real and all in the mind, why waste your time?

Yet that is what Steve does when he advocates using it to obtain wealth and happinness, both highly egoic pursuits that are abandoned after realization.   He does that quite a bit in his pages.  On one hand he will say that money is not a prerequisite for happiness.  then on another page he will describe in detail how he uses his mind to &quot;manifest it&quot;.

Steve&#039;s &quot;feeling of total oneness with everything… not just a feeling, but a deep sense of knowing&quot; is belied by HIS happiness with his newly found sense of wealth.  Isn&#039;t that something of a dualistic perspective?

He also says &quot;Perhaps the most crucial change of the subjective mindset was that I developed much better conscious control over my thoughts.  That became critical because if reality is created by thought, then I can’t allow myself the luxury of a negative thought, lest I create more of what I don’t want...  The ability to control your thoughts is very beneficial for psychic development.&quot;

If thoughts are known to be entirely subjective why attempt to control them?  Is not ego in itself is identification of one&#039;s thoughts with reality?

Steve also describes in detail what he describes as he power of intention and manifestation, notions that would have been abandoned in Seve&#039;s supposedly enlightened mind.  Intention by definition is a mental desire in the form of a plan.  It requires futurity, the notion of a future versus now.  Enlightened indviduals live in the moment.  The notion of personal volition completely evaporates.  You are no longer in control because there is no conventional sense of &quot;you&quot; remaining to exercise the illusion of control. 

Steve may have had an epiphany in 2005 but since then his egoic mind has returned to fill in the details.

If you want to know what the enlightened mind is like search the name Adyashanti on Youtube.  Listen to the video about &quot;The Nature of Thought&quot;.

As far as Steve&#039;s version goes, that is a sad and misguided imitation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After taking a closer look at Steve&#8217;s page I would say that the snippet you included above does not reveal the depth and scope of the problem.</p>
<p>Steve&#8217;s philosophy reminds me of a dog chasing its tail.  In it he recommends using it as a method for personal attainment.  If nothing is real and all in the mind, why waste your time?</p>
<p>Yet that is what Steve does when he advocates using it to obtain wealth and happinness, both highly egoic pursuits that are abandoned after realization.   He does that quite a bit in his pages.  On one hand he will say that money is not a prerequisite for happiness.  then on another page he will describe in detail how he uses his mind to &#8220;manifest it&#8221;.</p>
<p>Steve&#8217;s &#8220;feeling of total oneness with everything… not just a feeling, but a deep sense of knowing&#8221; is belied by HIS happiness with his newly found sense of wealth.  Isn&#8217;t that something of a dualistic perspective?</p>
<p>He also says &#8220;Perhaps the most crucial change of the subjective mindset was that I developed much better conscious control over my thoughts.  That became critical because if reality is created by thought, then I can’t allow myself the luxury of a negative thought, lest I create more of what I don’t want&#8230;  The ability to control your thoughts is very beneficial for psychic development.&#8221;</p>
<p>If thoughts are known to be entirely subjective why attempt to control them?  Is not ego in itself is identification of one&#8217;s thoughts with reality?</p>
<p>Steve also describes in detail what he describes as he power of intention and manifestation, notions that would have been abandoned in Seve&#8217;s supposedly enlightened mind.  Intention by definition is a mental desire in the form of a plan.  It requires futurity, the notion of a future versus now.  Enlightened indviduals live in the moment.  The notion of personal volition completely evaporates.  You are no longer in control because there is no conventional sense of &#8220;you&#8221; remaining to exercise the illusion of control. </p>
<p>Steve may have had an epiphany in 2005 but since then his egoic mind has returned to fill in the details.</p>
<p>If you want to know what the enlightened mind is like search the name Adyashanti on Youtube.  Listen to the video about &#8220;The Nature of Thought&#8221;.</p>
<p>As far as Steve&#8217;s version goes, that is a sad and misguided imitation.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13909</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13909</guid>
		<description>I like your enthusiasm and introspective desire for the truth.  If you are open to a more nuanced paradigm consider the following:

Your quotation on beating and burning does not mention the fact that the perception of pain is a highly subjective state.  An extreme example are those who have undergone amputation while under nothing more than hypnosis.

As far as pure objectivity goes, this would seem to be a meaningless argument used only in this case as a point of contention.  Notions of objectivity only come into play when more than one is involved and often when that happens consensus proves nothing.  If we agree a banana is yellow it is only from the perspective of a prior comparison.   The only objective definition for yellow would be to mention its wavelength.  but when does yellow finally become orange?

And isn&#039;t your particular notion of objectivity nothing more than the product of your thoughts?  Without them would your argument exist?

Greater men than you or I have been arguing over this since the egoic mind took form.   It&#039;s a nonstarter.

But let us consider the real argument, that is whether Steve&#039;s argument against an objective reality holds water.  It is in that area that I agree with you.  Steve&#039;s argument is unconvincing.  You may have said this but i&#039;ll rephrase.  Steve&#039;s argument in itself is an attempt to create an objective claim (one we should all agree on) about the non-existence of objectivity is it not? 

Catch-22!

To your main pretense...

Your comment &quot;The accuracy of your perceptions can be improved, with time and effort. &quot;  lacks any basis in any credible account of human perception simply because the accuracy of perception is unverifiable.  Switch the word accuracy to precision and you&#039;re in business.  Yes, our ability to develop concentration is unlimited.

But this too is small potatoes.

You think ego has power?  Show me an ego that doesn&#039;t.  isn&#039;t that what egos do best?

Somewhere in the text must have been the phrase that I Googled for &quot;the perception of perception&quot;.  Do you know what that truly is?

Steve&#039;s comments about consciousness and awareness are old school and commonly accepted.  Thought and perception ride on them.  That is easily verifiable by anyone.  If you are a compulsive thinker and/or look for truth in thought you may not believe it.  If so that would go hand in hand with your personal identification with this notion of objectivity since belief is nothing more than  identification with a thought (by definition more ego reinforcement) is it not?

But do you know what the perception of perception is?  If Steve&#039;s reports are true he does.  I will tell you. It is THE DIRECT EXPERIENCE (not merely the thought) that the essence of you is inside of a body that is not you, driving it around.  A mere tool.  In that perception of reality pain is merely a notification, there is nothing to defend and no position to defend from.  When does that perception become blocked?  Upon the arrival of the ego.

Wouldn&#039;t you agree that coming from an angle such as yours makes you predictable?  Is that a good thing for a martial artist?

Your comments about  the benefits of egocentricity seem highly stereotypical.  With them you are creating a box are you not?  If that comment get&#039;s your blood up as much as Steve&#039;s article seems to then I rest my case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your enthusiasm and introspective desire for the truth.  If you are open to a more nuanced paradigm consider the following:</p>
<p>Your quotation on beating and burning does not mention the fact that the perception of pain is a highly subjective state.  An extreme example are those who have undergone amputation while under nothing more than hypnosis.</p>
<p>As far as pure objectivity goes, this would seem to be a meaningless argument used only in this case as a point of contention.  Notions of objectivity only come into play when more than one is involved and often when that happens consensus proves nothing.  If we agree a banana is yellow it is only from the perspective of a prior comparison.   The only objective definition for yellow would be to mention its wavelength.  but when does yellow finally become orange?</p>
<p>And isn&#8217;t your particular notion of objectivity nothing more than the product of your thoughts?  Without them would your argument exist?</p>
<p>Greater men than you or I have been arguing over this since the egoic mind took form.   It&#8217;s a nonstarter.</p>
<p>But let us consider the real argument, that is whether Steve&#8217;s argument against an objective reality holds water.  It is in that area that I agree with you.  Steve&#8217;s argument is unconvincing.  You may have said this but i&#8217;ll rephrase.  Steve&#8217;s argument in itself is an attempt to create an objective claim (one we should all agree on) about the non-existence of objectivity is it not? </p>
<p>Catch-22!</p>
<p>To your main pretense&#8230;</p>
<p>Your comment &#8220;The accuracy of your perceptions can be improved, with time and effort. &#8221;  lacks any basis in any credible account of human perception simply because the accuracy of perception is unverifiable.  Switch the word accuracy to precision and you&#8217;re in business.  Yes, our ability to develop concentration is unlimited.</p>
<p>But this too is small potatoes.</p>
<p>You think ego has power?  Show me an ego that doesn&#8217;t.  isn&#8217;t that what egos do best?</p>
<p>Somewhere in the text must have been the phrase that I Googled for &#8220;the perception of perception&#8221;.  Do you know what that truly is?</p>
<p>Steve&#8217;s comments about consciousness and awareness are old school and commonly accepted.  Thought and perception ride on them.  That is easily verifiable by anyone.  If you are a compulsive thinker and/or look for truth in thought you may not believe it.  If so that would go hand in hand with your personal identification with this notion of objectivity since belief is nothing more than  identification with a thought (by definition more ego reinforcement) is it not?</p>
<p>But do you know what the perception of perception is?  If Steve&#8217;s reports are true he does.  I will tell you. It is THE DIRECT EXPERIENCE (not merely the thought) that the essence of you is inside of a body that is not you, driving it around.  A mere tool.  In that perception of reality pain is merely a notification, there is nothing to defend and no position to defend from.  When does that perception become blocked?  Upon the arrival of the ego.</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t you agree that coming from an angle such as yours makes you predictable?  Is that a good thing for a martial artist?</p>
<p>Your comments about  the benefits of egocentricity seem highly stereotypical.  With them you are creating a box are you not?  If that comment get&#8217;s your blood up as much as Steve&#8217;s article seems to then I rest my case.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13470</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Nov 2010 16:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13470</guid>
		<description>There are both subjective and objective reality, we can not reach objective reality via the reason that you pointed out...our senses only reach so far. even this which I am explaining is through my perception of reality, not that which is real. my words mean something different to me than to you. the map that we hold in our heads of life, of existence can never be complete but only in so far as it allows the entity it possesses the ability to transform and better all that it can reach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are both subjective and objective reality, we can not reach objective reality via the reason that you pointed out&#8230;our senses only reach so far. even this which I am explaining is through my perception of reality, not that which is real. my words mean something different to me than to you. the map that we hold in our heads of life, of existence can never be complete but only in so far as it allows the entity it possesses the ability to transform and better all that it can reach.</p>
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		<title>By: Klatu Berata Nicto</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13463</link>
		<dc:creator>Klatu Berata Nicto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Nov 2010 00:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13463</guid>
		<description>Incorrect reasoning. To be punched in the face does happen, and it does indeed hurt, however there are those whom can control, through their conciousness, their pain. I have seen Indian medicine men spear themselves with long needles, completely through the face, arms, etc with no pain. Buddhist monks whom set themselves aflame to protest vietnam, and not move or even whimper, until they were a charred statue.  Whilst I agree in part that there is an objective reality, it only exists for those not ready to see beyond their ego. I have been in fights and felt nothing at the time. No pain, fear, or hesitation. Later, certainly sore and humbled, but during the moment of strife, nothing. Adrenaline or subjectivity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incorrect reasoning. To be punched in the face does happen, and it does indeed hurt, however there are those whom can control, through their conciousness, their pain. I have seen Indian medicine men spear themselves with long needles, completely through the face, arms, etc with no pain. Buddhist monks whom set themselves aflame to protest vietnam, and not move or even whimper, until they were a charred statue.  Whilst I agree in part that there is an objective reality, it only exists for those not ready to see beyond their ego. I have been in fights and felt nothing at the time. No pain, fear, or hesitation. Later, certainly sore and humbled, but during the moment of strife, nothing. Adrenaline or subjectivity?</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13457</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Nov 2010 02:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13457</guid>
		<description>In response to a reply on another discussion board...

Actually, I think a more useful model describes that objective order is enforced, so to speak, by different entities, at different times and for various and sundry reasons.  (This is not a redefinition of terms, it is a recognition of the existence of context.)

For example, the manager of a bar has the power to issue a &quot;two drink minimum&quot; as an objective truth.  There is no appeal, but you don&#039;t like it then you are free to leave.  

Other realms of law are not so easy to depart.  For example, the strength of the gravitational pull on the surface of the Earth.  Sure, you can transcend, evade or escape it--possessing motive, means and opportunity--but that does not constitute the power to repeal it.  This is no insignificant detail.

(It is an important topic in martial arts, for reasons I have not written about here, yet, and have not seen covered elsewhere.)

In times like this, I think it can be helpful to remind people that they are NOT in fact a vessel of universal consciousness, as they understand it, because they do not understand it at all.  And that being the case, they should not be spreading baseless rumors on the Internet or elsewhere. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to a reply on another discussion board&#8230;</p>
<p>Actually, I think a more useful model describes that objective order is enforced, so to speak, by different entities, at different times and for various and sundry reasons.  (This is not a redefinition of terms, it is a recognition of the existence of context.)</p>
<p>For example, the manager of a bar has the power to issue a &#8220;two drink minimum&#8221; as an objective truth.  There is no appeal, but you don&#8217;t like it then you are free to leave.  </p>
<p>Other realms of law are not so easy to depart.  For example, the strength of the gravitational pull on the surface of the Earth.  Sure, you can transcend, evade or escape it&#8211;possessing motive, means and opportunity&#8211;but that does not constitute the power to repeal it.  This is no insignificant detail.</p>
<p>(It is an important topic in martial arts, for reasons I have not written about here, yet, and have not seen covered elsewhere.)</p>
<p>In times like this, I think it can be helpful to remind people that they are NOT in fact a vessel of universal consciousness, as they understand it, because they do not understand it at all.  And that being the case, they should not be spreading baseless rumors on the Internet or elsewhere. <img src='http://www.martialdevelopment.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Subjective Reality debunked - Page 4</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13454</link>
		<dc:creator>Subjective Reality debunked - Page 4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Nov 2010 23:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13454</guid>
		<description>[...] feel there are other perspectives we&#039;re missing out on.  Take a blog post like this, for instance: Transcending Subjective Reality  The writer believes that SR is a self-refuting concept and presents the idea that while there are [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] feel there are other perspectives we&#039;re missing out on.  Take a blog post like this, for instance: Transcending Subjective Reality  The writer believes that SR is a self-refuting concept and presents the idea that while there are [...]</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13224</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Oct 2010 02:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13224</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&amp;id=2009&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20100923.gif&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&#038;id=2009" rel="nofollow"><br />
<img src="http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20100923.gif"/></a></p>
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		<title>By: Oscar</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13185</link>
		<dc:creator>Oscar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Oct 2010 21:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-13185</guid>
		<description>There is many truths in all that its written in my perception. In truth it wouldn&#039;t matter if I&#039;m to believe in Subjective Reality (SR) or Objective Reality (OR). After years of thought and forgtten ones, I realised something for the first time. All that is explained about SR is true, but so is what is explained about OR. The reason be, we all identify one an other as individuals, like quoated before, we cannot identify one an other as conciosness, because there is only one. to reinforce this quote, &quot;nothing exists inside of conciousness, nothing exists outside of yourself, and everything and everyone is a projection of you&quot;. This is true, but not true. Everyone and everything is not a projection of yourself, but everything and everyone is a projection of one conciousness. now nothing exists outside of this conciousness, In addition every individual has their own mind and thoughts. only through an altered state of awareness can one see through the source (conciosness). every thought is a projection of your &quot;mind&quot;. and every individual, does contribute to our objective reality through individual thoughts that in fact is received by the conciousness. It sounds very confusing, But all laws of objective reality are obeyed, but can be bent and have been. We are all an individual mind with endless potential through Ultimate Concious awareness... now the question is, If is Just one Conciousness, why create this OB reality, what is the pourpose of life, and or is this an illusion?. We all have the answer to that question in our own individual mind&#039;s Understanding, Just close your eyes and practice not thinking, listin to your thoughts until oneday ur mind silences, then really listin and see your world through new eyes.
Before that think about this, 3+1= 4, but why. you &quot;believe this because it makes sense?&quot; but 3+1= 5, and why is this an error?. this is the law we percieve be cause we believe in it. we all know we can swim in water. take this formual, 3+1=4 which means we can swim in water, but 3+1=5 says we can walk in water... no matter how hard u try to walk on water, if ur mind doesn&#039;t believe 3+1=5 You will not walk on water.. so you cant bent OR if you cant bent your mind. think on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is many truths in all that its written in my perception. In truth it wouldn&#8217;t matter if I&#8217;m to believe in Subjective Reality (SR) or Objective Reality (OR). After years of thought and forgtten ones, I realised something for the first time. All that is explained about SR is true, but so is what is explained about OR. The reason be, we all identify one an other as individuals, like quoated before, we cannot identify one an other as conciosness, because there is only one. to reinforce this quote, &#8220;nothing exists inside of conciousness, nothing exists outside of yourself, and everything and everyone is a projection of you&#8221;. This is true, but not true. Everyone and everything is not a projection of yourself, but everything and everyone is a projection of one conciousness. now nothing exists outside of this conciousness, In addition every individual has their own mind and thoughts. only through an altered state of awareness can one see through the source (conciosness). every thought is a projection of your &#8220;mind&#8221;. and every individual, does contribute to our objective reality through individual thoughts that in fact is received by the conciousness. It sounds very confusing, But all laws of objective reality are obeyed, but can be bent and have been. We are all an individual mind with endless potential through Ultimate Concious awareness&#8230; now the question is, If is Just one Conciousness, why create this OB reality, what is the pourpose of life, and or is this an illusion?. We all have the answer to that question in our own individual mind&#8217;s Understanding, Just close your eyes and practice not thinking, listin to your thoughts until oneday ur mind silences, then really listin and see your world through new eyes.<br />
Before that think about this, 3+1= 4, but why. you &#8220;believe this because it makes sense?&#8221; but 3+1= 5, and why is this an error?. this is the law we percieve be cause we believe in it. we all know we can swim in water. take this formual, 3+1=4 which means we can swim in water, but 3+1=5 says we can walk in water&#8230; no matter how hard u try to walk on water, if ur mind doesn&#8217;t believe 3+1=5 You will not walk on water.. so you cant bent OR if you cant bent your mind. think on it.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-12795</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 00:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/transcending-subjective-reality/#comment-12795</guid>
		<description>Please tell us more about the profound changes that have taken place since your ego faded into the abyss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please tell us more about the profound changes that have taken place since your ego faded into the abyss.</p>
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