Comments on: Xingyi And The Myth of The Defensive Martial Art http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/myth-of-defensive-martial-art/ Martial arts for personal development Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:51:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Scott White http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/myth-of-defensive-martial-art/#comment-15084 Scott White Fri, 09 Sep 2011 17:45:23 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/?p=1577#comment-15084 Wow, really enjoyed your article. I completely agree. No one wants to tell parents that you are teaching your students to attack bullies, you tell them you are teaching them to defend themselves. In the US, our military is headed by the Department of Defense, which naturally sounds better than the department of war. Martial arts are like guns, knowing them, or carrying a gun does not compel you to attack/shoot someone. Alot of people shoot for fun or collect firearms as a hobby, but no one ever argues that a gun is a weapon, and the point of a weapon is its potential to inflict harm. A martial art without that is called a philosophy. Wow, really enjoyed your article. I completely agree. No one wants to tell parents that you are teaching your students to attack bullies, you tell them you are teaching them to defend themselves. In the US, our military is headed by the Department of Defense, which naturally sounds better than the department of war. Martial arts are like guns, knowing them, or carrying a gun does not compel you to attack/shoot someone. Alot of people shoot for fun or collect firearms as a hobby, but no one ever argues that a gun is a weapon, and the point of a weapon is its potential to inflict harm. A martial art without that is called a philosophy.

]]> By: XingYiMeatballFist. http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/myth-of-defensive-martial-art/#comment-14283 XingYiMeatballFist. Sat, 09 Apr 2011 20:03:52 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/?p=1577#comment-14283 Attack or defense dosn't really matter. The intention of these arts rest with their creators, but like all weapons, The way they are employed rests with the practitioner. These days they are labeled as Self defense because that is what they are primarily intended for by those who teach. Like all weapons training courses, Morality and responsability should be instilled before you learn to rend heaven and earth with Beng Quan. Attack or defense dosn’t really matter. The intention of these arts rest with their creators, but like all weapons, The way they are employed rests with the practitioner. These days they are labeled as Self defense because that is what they are primarily intended for by those who teach. Like all weapons training courses, Morality and responsability should be instilled before you learn to rend heaven and earth with Beng Quan.

]]> By: The Minister of Evil http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/myth-of-defensive-martial-art/#comment-13618 The Minister of Evil Fri, 10 Dec 2010 03:00:41 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/?p=1577#comment-13618 Thanks for the link Mr. Matz. I'll have a look when I get out of work. Thanks for the link Mr. Matz. I’ll have a look when I get out of work.

]]> By: Rick Matz http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/myth-of-defensive-martial-art/#comment-13617 Rick Matz Fri, 10 Dec 2010 02:30:59 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/?p=1577#comment-13617 I used to study Yoshinkan Aikido (the aikido of Gozo Shioda) and agree with the above comment on the importance of atemi. Some lengthy old videos of Yoshinkan: http://cookdingskitchen.blogspot.com/2010/11/vintage-yoshinkan-aikido-videos.html I used to study Yoshinkan Aikido (the aikido of Gozo Shioda) and agree with the above comment on the importance of atemi.

Some lengthy old videos of Yoshinkan:

http://cookdingskitchen.blogspot.com/2010/11/vintage-yoshinkan-aikido-videos.html

]]> By: The Minister of Evil http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/myth-of-defensive-martial-art/#comment-13616 The Minister of Evil Thu, 09 Dec 2010 22:34:38 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/?p=1577#comment-13616 Matt S., That is simply untrue. You may practice a variant of Aikido that does not use "attack" techniques but serious practitioners of any martial art know how to strike. Although in Aikido grappling is more emphasized than striking, if you can't strike you're simply not a martial artist. Here are some quotes culled from http://www.tsuki-kage.com: "The founder, Ueshiba Sensei, said, In a real battle, atemi is seventy percent, technique is thirty percent. The training that we do in the dojo is designed to teach us various sorts of techniques, the correct way to move our body, effective ways of using our power, and how to create a relationship with the other person." [This quote is repeated on page 19 of "Aikido Shugyo", also by Shioda Gozo]. "Atemi accounts for 99% of Aikido was a remark once uttered by the founder. I introduced atemi at some length in Vol. 4. Atemi is virtually omitted in Aikido training on the ground that [a] preliminary blow should not become a matter of predominant concern. However, there are quite a few cases in which the meaning of a technique becomes incomprehensible if the attendant atemi is left out. I suggest therefore that after reading through Vol. 4, study should be made as to when atemi should be delivered in the execution of a technique and cases of it's omission." "[Ueshiba] started with easy techniques using two of his students. Even for an untrained eye, it was clear that he moved very softly... However, in the meantime his students attack him with all their might and still tumble down in a shower of attacks (atemi) to their vital points." Matt S.,

That is simply untrue. You may practice a variant of Aikido that does not use “attack” techniques but serious practitioners of any martial art know how to strike. Although in Aikido grappling is more emphasized than striking, if you can’t strike you’re simply not a martial artist.

Here are some quotes culled from http://www.tsuki-kage.com:

“The founder, Ueshiba Sensei, said, In a real battle, atemi is seventy percent, technique is thirty percent. The training that we do in the dojo is designed to teach us various sorts of techniques, the correct way to move our body, effective ways of using our power, and how to create a relationship with the other person.” [This quote is repeated on page 19 of "Aikido Shugyo", also by Shioda Gozo].

“Atemi accounts for 99% of Aikido was a remark once uttered by the founder. I introduced atemi at some length in Vol. 4. Atemi is virtually omitted in Aikido training on the ground that [a] preliminary blow should not become a matter of predominant concern. However, there are quite a few cases in which the meaning of a technique becomes incomprehensible if the attendant atemi is left out. I suggest therefore that after reading through Vol. 4, study should be made as to when atemi should be delivered in the execution of a technique and cases of it’s omission.”

“[Ueshiba] started with easy techniques using two of his students. Even for an untrained eye, it was clear that he moved very softly… However, in the meantime his students attack him with all their might and still tumble down in a shower of attacks (atemi) to their vital points.”

]]> By: Matt S. http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/myth-of-defensive-martial-art/#comment-13615 Matt S. Thu, 09 Dec 2010 18:53:58 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/?p=1577#comment-13615 That's all well and good philosophically, but the fact remains that there are no attack techniques in aikido. That’s all well and good philosophically, but the fact remains that there are no attack techniques in aikido.

]]> By: chris http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/myth-of-defensive-martial-art/#comment-13204 chris Mon, 04 Oct 2010 22:03:08 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/?p=1577#comment-13204 Aikido, as defined by Morihei Ueshiba in writing, is not a defensive martial art. People continue to redefine it for their own purposes. Aikido, as defined by Morihei Ueshiba in writing, is not a defensive martial art. People continue to redefine it for their own purposes.

]]> By: Matt S. http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/myth-of-defensive-martial-art/#comment-13202 Matt S. Mon, 04 Oct 2010 21:33:35 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/?p=1577#comment-13202 I agree with this article in broad principle, but its use of aikido as an example doesn't work. Aikido really is a purely defensive martial art. There are no aikido attack techniques. Ovbiously, since aikido is derived from traditional jujutsu, it cannot claim a purely defensive lineage, but modern aikido is all defense. I agree with this article in broad principle, but its use of aikido as an example doesn’t work. Aikido really is a purely defensive martial art. There are no aikido attack techniques. Ovbiously, since aikido is derived from traditional jujutsu, it cannot claim a purely defensive lineage, but modern aikido is all defense.

]]> By: J.A. http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/myth-of-defensive-martial-art/#comment-11727 J.A. Fri, 23 Apr 2010 23:44:19 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/?p=1577#comment-11727 Marc G., About the Japanese martial arts. What you say about Karate is correct, but that is only one Japanese (are more specifically Okinawan) martial art. Most Japanese koryu were definetely meant to kill on the battlefield. J.A. Marc G.,
About the Japanese martial arts. What you say about Karate is correct, but that is only one Japanese (are more specifically Okinawan) martial art. Most Japanese koryu were definetely meant to kill on the battlefield.
J.A.

]]> By: josh young http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/myth-of-defensive-martial-art/#comment-10735 josh young Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:49:06 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/?p=1577#comment-10735 Okinawan arts have origin in White Crane type Chinese arts. Those in turn hail from a Shaolin influence, Shaolin was a temple art and those have a long tradition going back to the origins of Buddhism in India. In all those cases the primary goal is self preservation, but they have all been employed as attack arts for battle at times. Krav Maga is very much oriented at killing ones opponent quickly. It is a battlefield art. Israel is one of the most aggressive military states on the planet at the present time and if the bible is true then it has among the most violent and blood soaked history of any people. My namesake was not unlike Hitler, when he was said to have invaded Jericho and slaughtered every man, woman and child with the exception of a single prostitute. Not that Krav Maga is as old as all that, but it is very much a battlefield art and not very defense oriented. It is just irony that Israel uses the term Defense, their military policy is based on the concept of an eye for an eye, not defense at all but counter attack which is why so many Israeli soldiers have reported being ordered to shoot children in Palestine. Okinawan arts have origin in White Crane type Chinese arts.
Those in turn hail from a Shaolin influence, Shaolin was a temple art and those have a long tradition going back to the origins of Buddhism in India. In all those cases the primary goal is self preservation, but they have all been employed as attack arts for battle at times.

Krav Maga is very much oriented at killing ones opponent quickly. It is a battlefield art. Israel is one of the most aggressive military states on the planet at the present time and if the bible is true then it has among the most violent and blood soaked history of any people. My namesake was not unlike Hitler, when he was said to have invaded Jericho and slaughtered every man, woman and child with the exception of a single prostitute. Not that Krav Maga is as old as all that, but it is very much a battlefield art and not very defense oriented. It is just irony that Israel uses the term Defense, their military policy is based on the concept of an eye for an eye, not defense at all but counter attack which is why so many Israeli soldiers have reported being ordered to shoot children in Palestine.

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