Comments on: Four Paradoxes of Standing Meditation http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/ Martial arts for personal development Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:49:24 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Dragan Pavlovic http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/comment-page-1/#comment-10709 Dragan Pavlovic Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:37:41 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/#comment-10709 Hello W, The elbows: my elbows were a bit lower than it is said in the book (to be slightly under the level of the shoulders). It is easier to 'hold the ball' when your elbows are at the lower position, even for 3 inches. When I lifted them in the proper position (I believe that is the proper one), I experienced a big problem to maintain the position more than 5 minutes and I should be able to stand even for 15, because I practice for more than 2 months. That is it. Be well, Dragan Hello W,
The elbows: my elbows were a bit lower than it is said in the book (to be slightly under the level of the shoulders). It is easier to ‘hold the ball’ when your elbows are at the lower position, even for 3 inches. When I lifted them in the proper position (I believe that is the proper one), I experienced a big problem to maintain the position more than 5 minutes and I should be able to stand even for 15, because I practice for more than 2 months. That is it.
Be well,
Dragan

]]> By: W http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/comment-page-1/#comment-10708 W Sat, 22 Aug 2009 19:44:23 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/#comment-10708 Dragan Pavlovic, Sorry for such a late reply. In relation to needing a teacher or not: For best results, and quickest, having a teacher is extremely useful. And of course for any high level accomplishments a teach is a must. Yet for now doing what your doing will be extremely useful for when you do get a teacher. "When the student is ready the teacher will appear." Your just getting ready. My master said, "I found that it was in my solo practice at home that I made the most progress." I finding that to be true for me as well. About your elbow: I'm glad you made that discover! Very impressive, to notice that. But were u saying that your elbows were to high? I had a little trouble understanding that. If you ever want anymore help just let me know. Dragan Pavlovic,

Sorry for such a late reply.
In relation to needing a teacher or not:
For best results, and quickest, having a teacher is extremely useful. And of course for any high level accomplishments a teach is a must.
Yet for now doing what your doing will be extremely useful for when you do get a teacher. “When the student is ready the teacher will appear.” Your just getting ready. My master said, “I found that it was in my solo practice at home that I made the most progress.” I finding that to be true for me as well.

About your elbow:
I’m glad you made that discover! Very impressive, to notice that. But were u saying that your elbows were to high? I had a little trouble understanding that.

If you ever want anymore help just let me know.

]]> By: eastpaw http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/comment-page-1/#comment-10686 eastpaw Mon, 17 Aug 2009 05:13:43 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/#comment-10686 Fredo, Great post there, man. Fredo,

Great post there, man.

]]> By: Scott http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/comment-page-1/#comment-10653 Scott Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:51:43 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/#comment-10653 For heavens sake, get a teacher! A good teacher could tell you in 20 seconds what you are doing wrong. All the books have to be conservative so that they don't get sued, because they have no way of really knowing that a reader will understand correctly. The actual practice is one hour long, don't skimp, don't equivocate. If nothing else, be resolute! If you can dance for an hour, you have enough strength to do an hour of Zhan Zhuang. If you you don't have the energy to dance for an hour, forget standing meditation, you need to shake your booty first! For heavens sake, get a teacher! A good teacher could tell you in 20 seconds what you are doing wrong.
All the books have to be conservative so that they don’t get sued, because they have no way of really knowing that a reader will understand correctly.
The actual practice is one hour long, don’t skimp, don’t equivocate. If nothing else, be resolute!
If you can dance for an hour, you have enough strength to do an hour of Zhan Zhuang. If you you don’t have the energy to dance for an hour, forget standing meditation, you need to shake your booty first!

]]> By: Dragan Pavlovic http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/comment-page-1/#comment-10651 Dragan Pavlovic Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:17:59 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/#comment-10651 Hello for Chris and W, I think that I know the reason for my failure. The book says: your thumbs shouldn't be higher than your shoulders. Your shoulders should be SLIGHTLY under the level of your shoulders. My elbows were a bit more lower, so I had the lower center of gravity of my arms, and I was able to 'embrace the balloon' for 5 minutes without any problems, then to have the first crisis at the 8th minute and the last two minutes (to 10) I used to endure by focusing on my breathing. But, when I lifted my elbows a bit higher, I wasn't able to perform the drill even 5 minutes without big problems. As W says, it seems that I must start over, that 5 minutes must be my target. Chris, I couldn't find any free Fong Ha book, and I don't need an another paper book, my bookshelf will collapse, I am full of unnecessary 'knowledge'. Be well, my friends Dragan Hello for Chris and W,
I think that I know the reason for my failure. The book says: your thumbs shouldn’t be higher than your shoulders. Your shoulders should be SLIGHTLY under the level of your shoulders. My elbows were a bit more lower, so I had the lower center of gravity of my arms, and I was able to ‘embrace the balloon’ for 5 minutes without any problems, then to have the first crisis at the 8th minute and the last two minutes (to 10) I used to endure by focusing on my breathing.
But, when I lifted my elbows a bit higher, I wasn’t able to perform the drill even 5 minutes without big problems. As W says, it seems that I must start over, that 5 minutes must be my target.
Chris, I couldn’t find any free Fong Ha book, and I don’t need an another paper book, my bookshelf will collapse, I am full of unnecessary ‘knowledge’.
Be well, my friends
Dragan

]]> By: Fredo http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/comment-page-1/#comment-10649 Fredo Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:34:45 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/#comment-10649 Paradox Isometric exercises are static exercises. Muscles are held under contraction. There is no movement, yet muscle strength is built and one will be able to contract stronger and easier. Standing like the one described in this article is like an isometric for ones tendon, skeletal structure. But unlike muscles your are putting the tendons and bone into a constant state of extension against gravity. When standing you relax your muscle as much as you can, yet your tendons and bones are activated like connected coil wires. Your fingers extends, your spine extends, everything extends. In the beginning you unintentionally use muscle struggling to keep your arms up, but after a while a strange force will start to levitate them. So I think there is a lot of confusion when one says stand relaxed. Yes your muscles are relaxed (unenergized), but your structure is energized (not limp). You want to be energized/extended else your bones and tendons will not develop. When doing tai chi you are activiating your tendons and bones as you inhales, creating extending motions. Exhale and the tendons relax allow the chi to move back down into the earth. It does take time , discipline, correctness and patience, which is why not too many people get results. All the teachers I have had, say to do it everyday even if its just a litte bit. It wasn't until I did it at least 5 times a week did I start getting results, and after one does it becomes easier. Its amazing something that seems static produces fluid powerful motion. Paradox

Isometric exercises are static exercises. Muscles are held under contraction. There is no movement, yet muscle strength is built and one will be able to contract stronger and easier.

Standing like the one described in this article is like an isometric for ones tendon, skeletal structure. But unlike muscles your are putting the tendons and bone into a constant state of extension against gravity. When standing you relax your muscle as much as you can, yet your tendons and bones are activated like connected coil wires. Your fingers extends, your spine extends, everything extends. In the beginning you unintentionally use muscle struggling to keep your arms up, but after a while a strange force will start to levitate them.

So I think there is a lot of confusion when one says stand relaxed. Yes your muscles are relaxed (unenergized), but your structure is energized (not limp). You want to be energized/extended else your bones and tendons will not develop.

When doing tai chi you are activiating your tendons and bones as you inhales, creating extending motions. Exhale and the tendons relax allow the chi to move back down into the earth.

It does take time , discipline, correctness and patience, which is why not too many people get results. All the teachers I have had, say to do it everyday even if its just a litte bit. It wasn’t until I did it at least 5 times a week did I start getting results, and after one does it becomes easier. Its amazing something that seems static produces fluid powerful motion.

]]> By: Chris http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/comment-page-1/#comment-10647 Chris Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:12:59 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/#comment-10647 The simplest explanation would be that your shoulders are too weak. Maybe you should persevere, or maybe you should let them rest, or maybe you should try some <a href="http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/taiji-ruler-cures-sore-lower-back/" rel="nofollow">different exercises</a> to supplement zhan zhuang. Fong Ha teaches a system of 8 postures, 5 minutes each, for a total of 40 minutes standing. Every 5 minutes the hand position changes. The simplest explanation would be that your shoulders are too weak. Maybe you should persevere, or maybe you should let them rest, or maybe you should try some different exercises to supplement zhan zhuang.

Fong Ha teaches a system of 8 postures, 5 minutes each, for a total of 40 minutes standing. Every 5 minutes the hand position changes.

]]> By: Dragan Pavlovic http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/comment-page-1/#comment-10646 Dragan Pavlovic Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:40:53 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/#comment-10646 A minor mistake in my post. The last sentence should end up with 'after 3 minutes'. A minor mistake in my post. The last sentence should end up with ‘after 3 minutes’.

]]> By: Dragan Pavlovic http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/comment-page-1/#comment-10645 Dragan Pavlovic Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:37:36 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/#comment-10645 W, thank you for your suggestion, I also have a many year of various types of meditation etc., but, on the other hand, I can say that I am very temperament and nervous person (not toward the other people, it is rather the inner restless state), so I am more than sure that I have tons of accumulated stress in my system. Some people from a yahoo forum say that I'd try Qi Dao system or some other, but I see Zhan Zhuahg as the the best for me. Do you think the same as they do, that I NEED A TEACHER or I can forget the whole thing? The book by Lam Kam Chuen "The way of energy" is so clear, that I can't decide. But, they can be right, because I could have some serious energy blockades. Anyway, it is odd for me that when I decreased my standing from 15 to 5 minutes, it was the same. I had the first crisis after 5 minutes. Thanks for your help Dragan W, thank you for your suggestion,
I also have a many year of various types of meditation etc., but, on the other hand, I can say that I am very temperament and nervous person (not toward the other people, it is rather the inner restless state), so I am more than sure that I have tons of accumulated stress in my system.
Some people from a yahoo forum say that I’d try Qi Dao system or some other, but I see Zhan Zhuahg as the the best for me. Do you think the same as they do, that I NEED A TEACHER or I can forget the whole thing? The book by Lam Kam Chuen “The way of energy” is so clear, that I can’t decide. But, they can be right, because I could have some serious energy blockades.
Anyway, it is odd for me that when I decreased my standing from 15 to 5 minutes, it was the same. I had the first crisis after 5 minutes.
Thanks for your help
Dragan

]]> By: W http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/comment-page-1/#comment-10644 W Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:50:28 +0000 http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/four-paradoxes-of-standing-meditation/#comment-10644 Dragan Pavlovic, My thought is that maybe your personal progress didn't match what was suggested in the book. You have went ofr 15 minutes before you were ready. I would suggest that you start over with 5 min and take your time. You'll know when you are ready because 5 min will become very comfortable and easy for you to do. It took me about 9 months of daily practice for me to reach an hour. Although, I had 2 years of many meditation practices that helped me a lot. Dragan Pavlovic,

My thought is that maybe your personal progress didn’t match what was suggested in the book. You have went ofr 15 minutes before you were ready. I would suggest that you start over with 5 min and take your time. You’ll know when you are ready because 5 min will become very comfortable and easy for you to do. It took me about 9 months of daily practice for me to reach an hour. Although, I had 2 years of many meditation practices that helped me a lot.

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