Comments on: Martial Arts Secrets: Are You an Insider or Outsider?

By: John Jr.

John Jr. — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 06:13:43 +0000

Maybe this was already said but here goes. In my experience with teaching you can teach and say just about anything and the real secret is practice. The students who are meant to learn the “secrets” will learn them on their own. In other words many of the “secrets” cannot be taught, but can be learned, depending on the “disciple.”

I that sense, I love passing on secrets, because the very nature of passing them on makes people take them less seriously and the teaching remains obscured. This is also motivation for me to talk less and train more with the students so that they may have a greater chance of discovering the secrets on their own. Outsiders are outsiders by choice, even if they don’t know it.

I discover secrets all the time, by training with the less experienced.

By: Mike

Mike — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 22:27:05 +0000

More important than my own secrets are other secrets that I’m privy to. You know how it is, someone passes something on to you that you do not feel is yours to share but yours to use. It’s like I might borrow a friend’s bicycle but I would not sell it to my neighbor.

My secrets are yours for the asking. The others you need to go to the source for. I should note that this is also about protecting the secrets themselves. I might be qualified to use a technique but would not be successful in teaching it. A favorite technique of mine is the diao-chin of Tanglangquan which I can show to friends for fun but I will not teach them because I would not do it well. My diao-chin is inferior to my Sifu’s but adequate for fighting. If I taught it to a student, would his be?

I don’t think so, so it stays in Pandora’s Box.

By: Raphael

Raphael — Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:16:01 +0000

“Or, to put it differently: for how much money would you sell all of your own secrets?”
a bad question leads to a useless answer….
Money doesn’t interact at that level. All real martial artists can understand why someone receive secrets why someone doesn’t and those will never transfer knowledge to someone who won’t be able to handle it… martial logic

By: Josh Young

Josh Young — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:16:05 +0000

The meridian systems of Yang Family taijiquan have rarely if ever been published. Many students took oaths not to write such things, only to teach them. Then there is the line system of Yang taijiquan, this too is kept secret and even unknown in many systems.

When the system became form oriented and books were published there was material that was deemed unfit for the general public. Not a ton of material but some interesting stuff. It is one of the ways you can tell reconstituted taiji from true transmissions. The reconstituted stuff totally lacks meridian based targeting and the system of lines, which are among the aspects considered secret or reserved.

More interesting is that the songs of taiji were once considered secret but are now easy to find in print. The Michuan form itself was once secret, but is now known to the general public as well.

By: danno

danno — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:05:21 +0000

There is so much information available to ‘any’ of todays “truth seekers” within the internal arts, that to even suggest such a thing as secret knowledge handed down only to select few (of course this is true) that to dwell or waste the mental energy and time worrying about it is an exercise in mental masturbation. You could take the ‘available knowledge out there, and with a good teacher and good ‘fellow students’ take a lifetime in learning just a portion of it !

By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 01:08:23 +0000

“Holding back” suggests a cognitive framing of entitlement. I agree that teaching and sharing require continuous effort, and therefore silence should not be equated with secrecy. They are separate, and they definitely both occur.

By: wim

wim — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:53:43 +0000

Hi, I’m new here and just wanted to add to the discussion if I may.
I went through bai shi in two systems and both experiences were similar. It wasn’t like the teachers were holding back. More that they wanted a serious commitment from you. And in return they invest themselves in teaching you everything. Some of what they “held back” were perhaps techniques or concepts you weren’t ready for. As in, he could have given them to you earlier but you weren’t far enough in the style to understand them correctly. Not that you’re stupid or anything. Only that some knowledge and understanding only comes with time and practice.

Waiting to let you “inside the door” can also be seen as a sort of test, to see if the teacher isn’t going to waste his time when he decides to invest heavily into teaching you. In that regard, I think it’s a good tool. How many people quit training as opposed to those who stick to it for a life time?
Those that quit soon deserve good training too but it’s up to them to prove to the teacher that they’re worth his time and effort.

Just some ramblings. Great post and discussion here.

Happy Holidays,

Wim

By: karatebudo

karatebudo — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:52:38 +0000

“According to a popular martial arts meme, “there are no secrets” in martial arts. This is nonsense on multiple levels; primarily, because everything you haven’t learned is a secret to you—and you cannot expect to learn everything.”

This is a great observation and really applies to practicing anything in any field. New styles, especially combination and “freestyle” forms will always generate new technique.

By: Rick Matz

Rick Matz — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 02:14:04 +0000

“Chris // Nov 16, 2008

Rick, how would you feel if your instructor saw an area for improvement in your practice, but decided not to inform you, because you are not a formal disciple?”

She hasn’t been shy so far!!

By: Jay B.

Jay B. — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:32:20 +0000

A good master, I think, should be wise enough to know if a student is worthy of the teachings. Martial art can and is deadly. For a teacher to teach anybody who comes and pays him money, and teaches him a deadly technique without really knowing the student is a careless teacher. If you are not taught the “secret” techniques, even though you’re ready, it could be that your temperament isn’t suitable to handle such technique. Someone who is ready, skill wise, might not be ready, mentally. Real great martial art should be taught carefully because if a student uses the technique to purposefully injure someone, or even kill him (innocent or otherwise), then, the teacher is at fault. A great wise teacher will teach a student whom he deem worthy (without any bias to gender, race, or class). Sometimes knowledge can be too powerful and to tempting for a person to handle. Power corrupts.