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	<title>Comments on: Martial Arts Secrets: Are You an Insider or Outsider?</title>
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	<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/</link>
	<description>Martial arts for personal development</description>
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		<title>By: Josh Young</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/comment-page-1/#comment-10806</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/#comment-10806</guid>
		<description>The meridian systems of  Yang Family taijiquan have rarely if ever been published. Many students took oaths not to write such things, only to teach them. Then there is the line system of Yang taijiquan, this too is kept secret and even unknown in many systems.

When the system became form oriented and books were published there was material that was deemed unfit for the general public. Not a ton of material but some interesting stuff. It is one of the ways you can tell reconstituted taiji from true transmissions. The reconstituted stuff totally lacks meridian based targeting and the system of lines, which are among the aspects considered secret or reserved. 

More interesting is that the songs of taiji were once considered secret but are now easy to find in print. The Michuan form itself was once secret, but is now known to the general public as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The meridian systems of  Yang Family taijiquan have rarely if ever been published. Many students took oaths not to write such things, only to teach them. Then there is the line system of Yang taijiquan, this too is kept secret and even unknown in many systems.</p>
<p>When the system became form oriented and books were published there was material that was deemed unfit for the general public. Not a ton of material but some interesting stuff. It is one of the ways you can tell reconstituted taiji from true transmissions. The reconstituted stuff totally lacks meridian based targeting and the system of lines, which are among the aspects considered secret or reserved. </p>
<p>More interesting is that the songs of taiji were once considered secret but are now easy to find in print. The Michuan form itself was once secret, but is now known to the general public as well.</p>
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		<title>By: danno</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/comment-page-1/#comment-10802</link>
		<dc:creator>danno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/#comment-10802</guid>
		<description>There is so much information available to &#039;any&#039; of todays &quot;truth seekers&quot;  within the internal arts, that to even suggest such a thing as secret knowledge handed down only to select few (of course this is true)  that to dwell or  waste the mental energy and time worrying about it is an  exercise in mental masturbation.  You could take the &#039;available knowledge out there, and with a good teacher and good &#039;fellow students&#039; take a lifetime in learning just a portion of it !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is so much information available to &#8216;any&#8217; of todays &#8220;truth seekers&#8221;  within the internal arts, that to even suggest such a thing as secret knowledge handed down only to select few (of course this is true)  that to dwell or  waste the mental energy and time worrying about it is an  exercise in mental masturbation.  You could take the &#8216;available knowledge out there, and with a good teacher and good &#8216;fellow students&#8217; take a lifetime in learning just a portion of it !</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/comment-page-1/#comment-9093</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 01:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/#comment-9093</guid>
		<description>&quot;Holding back&quot; suggests a cognitive framing of entitlement.  I agree that teaching and sharing require continuous effort, and therefore silence should not be equated with secrecy.  They are separate, and they definitely both occur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Holding back&#8221; suggests a cognitive framing of entitlement.  I agree that teaching and sharing require continuous effort, and therefore silence should not be equated with secrecy.  They are separate, and they definitely both occur.</p>
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		<title>By: wim</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/comment-page-1/#comment-9088</link>
		<dc:creator>wim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/#comment-9088</guid>
		<description>Hi, I&#039;m new here and just wanted to add to the discussion if I may.
I went through bai shi in two systems and both experiences were similar. It wasn&#039;t like the teachers were holding back. More that they wanted a serious commitment from you. And in return they invest themselves in teaching you everything. Some of what they &quot;held back&quot; were perhaps techniques or concepts you weren&#039;t ready for. As in, he could have given them to you earlier but you weren&#039;t far enough in the style to understand them correctly. Not that you&#039;re stupid or anything. :-) Only that some knowledge and understanding only comes with time and practice.  

Waiting to let you &quot;inside the door&quot; can also be seen as a sort of test, to see if the teacher isn&#039;t going to waste his time when he decides to invest heavily into teaching you. In that regard, I think it&#039;s a good tool. How many people quit training as opposed to those who stick to it for a life time? 
Those that quit soon deserve good training too but it&#039;s up to them to prove to the teacher that they&#039;re worth his time and effort.

Just some ramblings. :-) Great post and discussion here.

Happy Holidays,

Wim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I&#8217;m new here and just wanted to add to the discussion if I may.<br />
I went through bai shi in two systems and both experiences were similar. It wasn&#8217;t like the teachers were holding back. More that they wanted a serious commitment from you. And in return they invest themselves in teaching you everything. Some of what they &#8220;held back&#8221; were perhaps techniques or concepts you weren&#8217;t ready for. As in, he could have given them to you earlier but you weren&#8217;t far enough in the style to understand them correctly. Not that you&#8217;re stupid or anything. <img src='http://www.martialdevelopment.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Only that some knowledge and understanding only comes with time and practice.  </p>
<p>Waiting to let you &#8220;inside the door&#8221; can also be seen as a sort of test, to see if the teacher isn&#8217;t going to waste his time when he decides to invest heavily into teaching you. In that regard, I think it&#8217;s a good tool. How many people quit training as opposed to those who stick to it for a life time?<br />
Those that quit soon deserve good training too but it&#8217;s up to them to prove to the teacher that they&#8217;re worth his time and effort.</p>
<p>Just some ramblings. <img src='http://www.martialdevelopment.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Great post and discussion here.</p>
<p>Happy Holidays,</p>
<p>Wim</p>
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		<title>By: karatebudo</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/comment-page-1/#comment-8950</link>
		<dc:creator>karatebudo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/#comment-8950</guid>
		<description>&quot;According to a popular martial arts meme, “there are no secrets” in martial arts. This is nonsense on multiple levels; primarily, because everything you haven’t learned is a secret to you—and you cannot expect to learn everything.&quot;

This is a great observation and really applies to practicing anything in any field. New styles, especially combination and &quot;freestyle&quot; forms will always generate new technique.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;According to a popular martial arts meme, “there are no secrets” in martial arts. This is nonsense on multiple levels; primarily, because everything you haven’t learned is a secret to you—and you cannot expect to learn everything.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a great observation and really applies to practicing anything in any field. New styles, especially combination and &#8220;freestyle&#8221; forms will always generate new technique.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Matz</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/comment-page-1/#comment-8944</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Matz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 02:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/#comment-8944</guid>
		<description>&quot;Chris  // Nov 16, 2008

Rick, how would you feel if your instructor saw an area for improvement in your practice, but decided not to inform you, because you are not a formal disciple?&quot;

She hasn&#039;t been shy so far!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Chris  // Nov 16, 2008</p>
<p>Rick, how would you feel if your instructor saw an area for improvement in your practice, but decided not to inform you, because you are not a formal disciple?&#8221;</p>
<p>She hasn&#8217;t been shy so far!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jay B.</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/comment-page-1/#comment-8941</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/#comment-8941</guid>
		<description>A good master, I think, should be wise enough to know if a student is worthy of the teachings. Martial art can and is deadly. For a teacher to teach anybody who comes and pays him money, and teaches him a deadly technique without really knowing the student is a careless teacher. If you are not taught the &quot;secret&quot; techniques, even though you&#039;re ready, it could be that your temperament isn&#039;t suitable to handle such technique. Someone who is ready, skill wise, might not be ready, mentally. Real great martial art should be taught carefully because if a student uses the technique to purposefully injure someone, or even kill him (innocent or otherwise), then, the teacher is at fault. A great wise teacher will teach a student whom he deem worthy (without any bias to gender, race, or class). Sometimes knowledge can be too powerful and to tempting for a person to handle. Power corrupts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good master, I think, should be wise enough to know if a student is worthy of the teachings. Martial art can and is deadly. For a teacher to teach anybody who comes and pays him money, and teaches him a deadly technique without really knowing the student is a careless teacher. If you are not taught the &#8220;secret&#8221; techniques, even though you&#8217;re ready, it could be that your temperament isn&#8217;t suitable to handle such technique. Someone who is ready, skill wise, might not be ready, mentally. Real great martial art should be taught carefully because if a student uses the technique to purposefully injure someone, or even kill him (innocent or otherwise), then, the teacher is at fault. A great wise teacher will teach a student whom he deem worthy (without any bias to gender, race, or class). Sometimes knowledge can be too powerful and to tempting for a person to handle. Power corrupts.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Furnari</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/comment-page-1/#comment-8933</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Furnari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/#comment-8933</guid>
		<description>&quot;I don’t feel entitled to all of his teachings or feeling left out if I am not taught everything that the master knows. &quot;

If the master is not teaching more advanced teachings &quot;for now,&quot; as he is waiting for the student to be ready for it, or mature enough, or dedicated enough, or something like that, that&#039;s fairly straight forward and acceptable.

If he&#039;s holding back from a student who is otherwise ready because he wants only his son to have it all, or he wants only members of a certain ethnicity or race to have it or whatever, that&#039;s bunk and he&#039;s not a teacher for the 21 century.

I don&#039;t think there are too many of the latter type teachers any more. If for no other reason, he would eventually lose his students to the masters who do teach all they know. There are plenty of them out there.

In any case, I just don&#039;t believe there is much to be held back. The notion that a martial art has secret teachings, known only to a few wend out with the dodo. It was really just a way of preserving a monopoly. When the &quot;secret&quot; stuff was revealed, it turned out not to be all that secret.

There was a time when the tai chi forms were &quot;secret.&quot; Outside students were taught the practical applications, but only trusted insiders were given the whole form, as the form was seen as the vehicle to preserve the art. Does that mean the student who didn&#039;t learn the form didn&#039;t know some movements? Of course not! They just didn&#039;t practice the form as we do today. But those students were still internal martial artists and probably made up for the lack of form with other methods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I don’t feel entitled to all of his teachings or feeling left out if I am not taught everything that the master knows. &#8221;</p>
<p>If the master is not teaching more advanced teachings &#8220;for now,&#8221; as he is waiting for the student to be ready for it, or mature enough, or dedicated enough, or something like that, that&#8217;s fairly straight forward and acceptable.</p>
<p>If he&#8217;s holding back from a student who is otherwise ready because he wants only his son to have it all, or he wants only members of a certain ethnicity or race to have it or whatever, that&#8217;s bunk and he&#8217;s not a teacher for the 21 century.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think there are too many of the latter type teachers any more. If for no other reason, he would eventually lose his students to the masters who do teach all they know. There are plenty of them out there.</p>
<p>In any case, I just don&#8217;t believe there is much to be held back. The notion that a martial art has secret teachings, known only to a few wend out with the dodo. It was really just a way of preserving a monopoly. When the &#8220;secret&#8221; stuff was revealed, it turned out not to be all that secret.</p>
<p>There was a time when the tai chi forms were &#8220;secret.&#8221; Outside students were taught the practical applications, but only trusted insiders were given the whole form, as the form was seen as the vehicle to preserve the art. Does that mean the student who didn&#8217;t learn the form didn&#8217;t know some movements? Of course not! They just didn&#8217;t practice the form as we do today. But those students were still internal martial artists and probably made up for the lack of form with other methods.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay B.</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/comment-page-1/#comment-8932</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/#comment-8932</guid>
		<description>Just want to comment a little bit on this. I see the relationship of disciples and masters a little bit different than most. I see it as an honor to be taught by a master, even if I have to pay for it (as long as it&#039;s not thousands of dollars). I don&#039;t feel entitled to all of his teachings or feeling left out if I am not taught everything that the master knows. I feel honored just to be taught by my master/teacher. Whether whom he teaches the ultimate style or teaching is his decision and I have to honor him for it. It&#039;s like a parent to his children. Which child will get the most of the inheritance is the decision of the parent, not the child feeling entitled to all of the inheritance. I think this sense of entitlement is corrupting many relationships between teachers and disciples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just want to comment a little bit on this. I see the relationship of disciples and masters a little bit different than most. I see it as an honor to be taught by a master, even if I have to pay for it (as long as it&#8217;s not thousands of dollars). I don&#8217;t feel entitled to all of his teachings or feeling left out if I am not taught everything that the master knows. I feel honored just to be taught by my master/teacher. Whether whom he teaches the ultimate style or teaching is his decision and I have to honor him for it. It&#8217;s like a parent to his children. Which child will get the most of the inheritance is the decision of the parent, not the child feeling entitled to all of the inheritance. I think this sense of entitlement is corrupting many relationships between teachers and disciples.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/comment-page-1/#comment-8927</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/are-you-a-martial-arts-insider-or-outsider/#comment-8927</guid>
		<description>Rick, how would you feel if your instructor saw an area for improvement in your practice, but decided not to inform you, because you are not a formal disciple?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick, how would you feel if your instructor saw an area for improvement in your practice, but decided not to inform you, because you are not a formal disciple?</p>
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